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twistedace
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I was wondering if anyone here has reviewed the Flex 5 system from Pro Mystic? I love PM and think it's an incredibly reputable company. My friend has the DVD and said it was pretty good, but nothing really new.
Dannydoyle
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It does not seem like hypnosis but rather a card trick.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
twistedace
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It is a card trick but that's only included as an out if the participants are not hypnotized. It's being sold as a system for hypnosis without fear of failure. The hypnotism may not work on the subjects, and the card effect is there to fall back on. It's supposedly a way to build confidence in the system while still having some sort of positive outcome/effect. I could go without the card effect, I was interested in the hypnosis system itself they are offering. A friend said it was good, but not too much different from stuff read in Reality is Plastic or the Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnosis.
mindpunisher
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I watched the video on Promystic it just showed Craig trying a (pretty lame)induction on a single person on a stage nothing else? My bet would be Craig makes some really good products but he isn' much of a hypnotist. If you are serious about learning hypnosis go learn hypnosis and forget "crutches" you really don't need them.
Dannydoyle
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If the fear of failure bothers you stay away from hypnosis.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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I agree. I love Craig and Promystic, but this is what it is...a magic trick for pseudo hypnosis. It is not hypnosis in any form of reality. Craig presented it and demo'd it for me personally and I was not impressed. This will only appeal to magicians pretending to want to do hypnosis, which will not fly well with the pros here. Sorry.


Why is it when it comes to hypnosis or real mentalism, everyone only wants a pretend shortcut rather than taking the time to learn the real things? An actual usable and bankable skill set?
Dannydoyle
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Was it that thing we saw at mindvention?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
twistedace
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I wasn't interested in the card effect part and don't mind failing. I was more interested in what the members of this forum thought of the structure of the 5 step system for hypnosis itself. I would love personal training, but unfortunately have not seen any available in the area.
Dannydoyle
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There are plenty of books and DVD material on it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Dec 27, 2015, twistedace wrote:
I would love personal training, but unfortunately have not seen any available in the area.


You seek out and go to where good training is. It likely won't be in your own backyard. Much like college, you decide on whats best for your direction and goals and then go to the best choice or opportunity. Staying locally, in most cases can be limiting to local level or community resources.

In all fairness I haven't seen the completed Flex 5 DVD. Craig demo'd it for me personally, and showed me video footage from his phone that I believe is what is on the DVD or similar to, but as Danny said, the card trick to us discredited the whole thing. I thought I was asked to review the DVD, but don't believe I ever received it, so perhaps I am wrong. I get asked to review so much material usually hypnosis or mentalism, that perhaps I'm confusing it with something else. But we did see it demo'd live and neither of us as longtime working professionals were very impressed or interested. Again, the card thing was so distracting that perhaps the finished DVD would stand better on its own. But still, I cringe at the idea of hypnosis for magicians. Do it right and get proper training or don't do it at all. I'm always very cautious of anything targeted to magicians or mentalists or that is hyped under the guise of "add some hypnosis to your show."
mindguru
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I purchased this with high expectations, all I can say is that I was disappointed. I don't usually buy electronics and have never bought any of his products, but I know the creator of this product is highly respected for his electronic products. So I thought if he has created a product for people wishing to perform real hypnosis without electronics it must be something amazing. I have a lot of hypnosis products and I have no problems hypnotising people, but I always believe you can always learn more and that someone can come up with an invention or technique that is trually groundbreaking. Unfortunately this dvd was not groundbreaking and was basically a card trick. I was also disappointed that you then have to do your own DIY.

I must admit it was entertaining to watch the 17 year old guy perform this routine for the first time, especially as he was not a performer, but nobody at all was hypnotised and if he then tried to lead them into real hypnosis, I doubt it would have worked. Obviously an experienced hypnotist could use this as a starting point and progress from there. I personally didn't find the teaching of real hypnosis that great either, then again I'm comparing this to products by Anthony Jacquin and others.

There was another thread about this product which I had planned to post my thoughts, but it seems to have disappeared. I stayed away over the Christmas period until now and was looking forward to reading their responses, to see if others felt as I did. I assume it must have got off topic and ending in chaos.

I think this is more suited for a magician who wants to perform Pseudo hypnosis, than someone like myself who is interested in real hypnosis and mentalism.
markhitton
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I agree the stuff is very boring ,just a card trick to reinforce Smile
The conversation is hypnotical and not to the point.
I do not see any improvement ,i remain stucked to already seen dvd.
In my personal opinion unuseful Smile
craig filicetti
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Quote:
On Dec 26, 2015, mindpunisher wrote:
I watched the video on Promystic it just showed Craig trying a (pretty lame)induction on a single person on a stage nothing else? My bet would be Craig makes some really good products but he isn' much of a hypnotist. If you are serious about learning hypnosis go learn hypnosis and forget "crutches" you really don't need them.



Wow, I did not even know this thread was here. Lots of information. Let me give you some data.

I have performed this in 5 lectures over the last year. 1 time at MindVention, 1 time at The Magic Circle London, 3 times at FISM Italy. I used 3 people in each lecture and performed a 7 minute hypnosis demonstration. In each lecture I had subjects go into trance, real trance, and I have video of 4 of them. If you attended MindVention and saw this I don't think you can argue this point. It was real Hypnosis.

From the Hypnotists that I have talked to it would be "challenging" to get the results I just described under the same conditions. Maybe you don't agree and I wonder how many of you could work with 3 subject (mentalist at a convention none the less) and get real trance and perform a demonstration in 7 minutes at 5 different lectures? Perhaps all of you could and these results are no big deal, but I think the results are impressive. To my knowledge hypnosis has never been demonstrated at MindVention or even FISM in a lecture and I wonder why, it is because the failure rate would be too high? I am sure you will all help me research that.

If you think this is just a card trick you have missed the point completely. I can fully understand if you don't like the content, presentation of the material, DVD, or even the routine.



Best,
Craig
ProMystic - Professional Systems For Mentalists
<BR>www.promystic.com
mindpunisher
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This is a stage hypnosis forum Craig. No offense but in those videos you didn't come over as an experienced stage hypnotist. you make brilliant products and I respect you a lot. And great if you got hypnotic phenomena from a small number of people. I got three out of four in my very first attempt trying to do a show with 10 people. But that's not the point. My point was if you want to learn hypnosis especially for the stage go learn it from a seasoned pro if you can. I'm now confused are you now saying you are teaching real hypnosis with this effect?

I love a lot of your products and creations I just think when it comes to hypnosis its best to learn it properly. Just my opinion in a stage hypnosis forum. I still love your work though. I mean this is a stage hypnosis forum?

I'm sorry if I missed the point. Maybe you missed mine? Success of a hypnosis show should never be measured by the number of people you get "under". that's not what stage hypnosis about.
craig filicetti
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Thanks for the comments on our products, we take pride in all of them and never trying to over sell them.

Flex5 is not sold as a Stage Hypnosis DVD and I only replied to the thread because my name was brought up. In fact on the Flex5 DVD we recommend The Geoff Ronning training/DVDs if you want to progress into Stage Hypnosis.

Again, I only comment in this thread because it was brought up and not by me.

It is sold as follows:

"Have you ever wanted to add a Hypnosis demonstration to your mentalism or magic show?"

I am glad I don't come across as a Stage Hypnotist because that is not what I am trying to achieve as a Mentalist. Many of my mentalism customers wanted to demonstrate hypnotic phenomenon in their shows but didn't know how, as I didn't years ago (I know stage hypnotist may not like this). When I asked all my Hypnotist customers many wanted to add mentalism to their shows and I helped many do this. They told me adding Hypnosis to my show would be hard. "you need more people, you need more time, you need a demonstration, etc." So I worked on 'out of your mind' and found Michael Swenson with 'flex5'. Can I now hypnotize people in my shows under these difficult circumstances, yes. I even do it in walk around when the conditions are right. I don't need everyone to go under but if I am only working with 3 people I need someone to go under IF I want to take it further. I have a lot of material that I can perform in my shows and this is one of those that I do because it is most talked about after the show. Flex5 and 'out of your mind' is exactly how I learned it and perform it in my shows and it is effective for me.

Best,
-Craig
ProMystic - Professional Systems For Mentalists
<BR>www.promystic.com
mindpunisher
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Like I said Craig I have a lot of respect for you and your creations. My point was if you want to learn hypnosis its best go learn it properly. A lot of people especially new don't know the difference. I understand that this effect is really aimed at mentalists. I always did a mentalism section to my club shows. There is nothing wrong with mentalism alongside hypnosis. In fact I always found it worked well and was doing it 20 years ago long before the current popularity! But in order to be good at either you need to know the difference. And you need to learn both as separate disciplines. Newbies on here get mixed up and its not the best way to learn.
Dannydoyle
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Exactly. New guys get confused. And then they think they know based on that confusion. Then they argue based on it and it is silly.

There is place for all that stuff in entertainment. But the entire" blur the lines between magic and hypnosis" nonsense is ok when done for An audience. I think it is silly but hey go for it. But when it ends up confusing the performer as much as the audience and they come here with an obvious magic trick and try to argue it is hypnosis it is just stupid. NOT THIS particular trick, just any trick in general.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Mar 7, 2016, craig filicetti wrote:

It is sold as follows:

"Have you ever wanted to add a Hypnosis demonstration to your mentalism or magic show?"


I've got to say as much as I love Craig, his mind, his work and his customer service (oh, and also being a great guy), this too is exactly the problem I had with this as well.

The worse thing, especially here, is battling this improper misperception that hypnosis is or can be "a trick" or "an effect."It's not, never has been and is the worse thing than can happen to the hypnosis community.

This puts it right up there with ropes, coins, silks, bunnies, and such. It perpetuates that you don't have to properly learn or commit to hypnosis, but rather just "add a little hypnosis to your show." This is something the hypnosis industry has been fighting for decades and just when it seems to have gotten better...

I see how magicians gravitate towards this. It's saddening. What's worse is that they then start to believe they are skilled hypnotists and as evidenced in some of the threads here in other forums, and start giving advice on hypnosis! This is the exact concern and problem many in the hypnosis community have with this. Then look at the other threads about this in other areas of the Café, when actual hypnotists chime in to offer a real perspective, they don't want to hear it, they'd rather believe the unskilled and educated in their opinions. They argue again real skill and experience in support of the quick fix. It is crazy!

I'd still have a problem if it was marketed as a psuedo-hypnoisis magic/mentalism trick to "give the illusion of hypnosis." The problem is the perceptions and mindset of the performer and mostly the audiences are the same. It absolutely most definitely blurs the line. I saw this at Mindvention."
Dannydoyle
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I was there and it was nothing but a card trick.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Matt Pulsar
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In terms of the card trick it is based on it is very good thinking, but yes, a card trick none the less. There are some good thoughts on hypnosis in the DVDs and while I agree that to learn hypnosis one should get good training, this is a performance tool for mentalists, I actually think it's weird that ProMystic would promote this for a magic show as that is an odd jump to make and it would look like a crappy card trick and confuse the audience. It's more something to put into a mentalism show that allows you to either branch from the card based presentation into hypnosis (provided you know how to do that) than anything else. I have used it in that way, and it is very effective when working with a small group. When performing a full hypnosis program I wouldn't use it, no need, it would be confusing. But, when I used it with three subjects pulled from a group of 10-15 I then have had one or two of those three that I then worked with in deep hypnotic states. The others were dismissed back to the group,and they were dismissed having had some kind of experience which is nice. In the right context it is something. When I first got it I thought it was interesting and worth the price and a good product. I honestly haven't used it in a while, but it is in my performance case for the instances where it would make sense.

In contrast, as you all know, if you get good at sensing who is a good subject there is absolutely no need for this. Last night I was performing and in the crowd of 15 only one girl was truly stuck in a hand lock. Later in the evening I worked with her and had her stuck in place and no matter what card I showed her from a deck of cards she named the 2 of spades. I agree that this is leaps and bounds more impressive and effective than any trickery could be. I went on to installing the suggestion that a word was funny and taking away the number 6, all super strong stuff. So I see both sides of this argument. I agree that pseudo hypnosis takes away from the real experience and adds to the misconception that hypnosis is not real, and I also understand why this effect was created in that there are times with small groups where you just don't get a good subject.

My hope when exploring this product was that the experience the participants have would be enough to put a subject who was not experiencing hypnotic phenomena into real trance. What I have found only supports the that hypnosis is a numbers game, so no change there. I'm still open to the idea.
Belief Manifests Reality.
http://www.pulsarmental.com
Palm Star Zodiac Divination System: https://palmstarzodiac.blogspot.com/
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