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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Trolls and Bullies on the Hypno threads (10 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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WitchDocChris
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Inner circle
York, PA
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What about when I asked if I could be shown some videos of performers that didn't do 'standard' comedy hypnosis and was ignored? http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=22

Or when Tristan14 asked about The Trilby Connection and got responses regarding Fraser Parker? http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=22 (Except me - because I've seen both the sets he was referring to)

People do ask questions. And they get shot down, belittled, and/or ignored.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Mindpro
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You are misinterpreting perpetuating the problem with being ignored. For example, your request for some videos is not anything I would ever support or encourage. I believe it is wrong to post or suggest others videos. It is one of the greatest problems with out art (and attempting to learn our art) today as everyone seeing others videos on youtube. Rather than encourage it and rather than stating why it is not encouraged and risk the issue of my response being taken out of context or you reading something into it that doesn't exist, I choose to pass and see if anyone else would assist you. Hence my other point, if the ones (you know the trolls and bullies) you and others seem to be targeting with this thread, if we didn't respond or assist, it wouldn't get done.

So which is it? You want us to assist and not care for what we offer or how it's presented, or for us to chose to take the high road and not create an issue and disregard it only to have you feel you were being ignored. It's a lose-lose situation.

As far as Tristan's request, he stated he is a Head Hacking student and has many of their materials, plus he is new here, and likely would like to hear the responses he is hoping to hear. It too would evolve into what you guys would deem attacking, not encouraging his, and all of your other "opinions." The products he mentioned are created and targeted for magicians, again, part of the problem. Not what many would consider true hypnosis training. I think they were greatly responsible for the wave that has finally subsided that we have been speaking about here. Do I care to encourage this? Of course not. Again, so not responding wasn't right with you, and if we would have responded you wouldn't have cared for what we were saying. We shouldn't need to defend ourselves, our positions and reasons for not responding. Again, lack of understanding, appreciation and respect. Yet you claim it is belittling. Really?

Bottom line is he wouldn't have liked what he would have been told so, out of courtesy, he was spared. Maybe Anthony would have chimed in to tell him what he wanted to hear. It didn't happen. Also if he took the time to search the forum, he would have understood all of this and these positions and perspectives. It's all well documented. Our job here is not to handhold everyone who wanders in here. If they want to come with an open mind and learn from those with experience and demonstrate respect, great, there are many here who will share. But if it's just to gain faux support in what he thinks (based on lack of/minimal education and knowledge), I prefer not to perpetuate that myself. Hope this clarifies and creates the proper perspective for you and the points you presented.
WitchDocChris
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York, PA
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I would appreciate it if you would not make assumptions about myself or my comprehension skills. You do not know me. You do not know what I am able to comprehend or not. To enlighten you, I can comprehend the concept of not wanting to share videos for that reason. It's reasonable and understandable. Had you taken the time to dismount your high horse and give that response, I can tell you I would have said, "Ok! I understand and respect that position."

It seems to me you (collectively) are not very concerned with people finding the right resources to learn this art and skill because you rarely take the time to bother guiding anyone beyond, "Find personal training." Ok, that is great advice. But if that is all you have to say then this forum is pretty pointless isn't it? We could just pin a post up top that says, "Google a personal trainer and come back after 20 years of performances."

Not everyone knows to search forums. Not everyone is savvy with this form of communication any more. They are not nearly as popular as they were even a few years ago. Now it's all Facebook and Twitter. So apparently, to be deserving of any respect on this forum you must be an expert with decades of experience and also savvy in outdated internet based communication methods? Doesn't seem terribly welcoming to me.

I just don't understand it, personally. Maybe the old guard here is just tired of answering same questions over and over? I can understand that. It gets tedious answering the same questions over and over and feeling like no one is learning. That's pretty much my day job right there. But I still make a point to create a response to every new magician wanting to overcome stage fright, or figure out how to create routines, or how to get more paid gigs. Because I was once where these people are now, and I had people who responded to my emails.

Everyone deserves basic respect and manners. I do not have the experience you guys have, that is true. Not even a third of it. But there is no way I will ever get to that point if I didn't go through what I've already gone through to get where I am now. And there's no way you could have gotten to where you are without being a rank amateur at one point as well. Someone (Or multiple someones most likely) responded to your questions and helped you learn. These people asking these questions are in the same place - they're just looking for answers to questions. Is that such a crime?

This place does not welcome new learners, does not encourage anyone I have seen, and therefore is doing nothing to develop the knowledge and skill of hypnosis.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Mindpro
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You have a unique knack and great talent for just naturally taking things out of context to reflect things never said. I never referred to anything about your comprehension skills. I simply explained my own personal reasons for not responding to your inquiring, and exactly as I predicted you are responding as expected. That was the entire point you've seemed to missed, yet you added something that was never there.

I regularly offer sources and resources when applicable. I've regularly talked about my own trainings (and others I suggest), even taking 1-3 students on the road with me as part of my annual Spring tour to allow for the entire real-world, hands-on experience and to see and experience all facets of stage hypnosis performing from the business, marketing, behind the scenes aspects to the show and after. Again, if you were here with any regularity you'd know this and probably, like other regulars here, would be tired of hearing me say this over and over again.

Again, it's about you being part of the community and how you choose to fit in and participate. You must be a magician, as this seems to be common to those that come to hypnosis from magic. Unrealistic expectations.

In reality to me things are exactly the opposite of what you've said here. The community has been consistent for years. It seems that there is only the few of you that are sharing this problem and all of you have some of the same approach - not regular contributing members, only pop in occasionally, only expect to take, rarely give, and have a problem about how others offer their advice (that you are seeking!). To the point of one of you starting this thread itself! How much more obvious can this be? (Btw, where is the OP in all of this? Talk about tolling, flaming and baiting!)

What you don't understand is your "rookie-ness" and approach is part of the problem (see I AM giving you FREE advice!). A beginner, that thinks they are peers with 30 year veterans of any business or industry is just plain silly. It's delusional. Take any business or profession. If a new young hotshot tries barging in trying to tell the longtime veterans "how it is" and "how it should be" the exact same thing would happen that is happening here. It IS disrespectful and it IS uninviting. Why would anyone want to assist that person?

You seem to expect respect, which, like the pretty packing you expect in information provided, may be your own false expectation.

This place does welcome learners, but what is more important is how open and respectful they are approaching this learning process and those they are learning from. You seem to be focusing more on the HOW than the WHYs. Putting your effort on yourself rather than what you seem to expect form others may be a great starting point for newcomers here to start with.
Dannydoyle
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This place does not welcome newcomers who want to set rules of conduct, give opinions as if they are fact and want to tell others how to act.

I will answer any question but lets talk respect here a second. On this thread Chris you make a claim of all shows you have seen being the same and ate quote disrespectful or shows in general.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......start=30

Why in the world would anyone want to help you when you do that? You want respect and toy don't give it. Then you want to demand people show you video and such. You don't see how this will bother professionals?

So look in the mirror and get your item behavior in line before complaining about others.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Tristan14
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As far as a place to learn for a beginner I've learned this is not one, but there is some interesting content shared here from time to time so I pop in and out. I appreciate the thought that no information is better than the wrong info but the first time few times posted here it felt a bit like a kick to the nuts. When either being ignored or shot down, maybe in hindsight I was just asking the wrong sort of questions and the few regulars here although very knowledgeable are somewhat stuck in there ways and sick of the same old junk being asked.
I’ve come to my own decision to seek learning basic hypnosis knowledge elsewhere. This place has a strong feeling of "If you’re not capable of understanding it’s not worth the time explaining."
That being said I've got maybe a little kick in the right direction and have dropped thinking about mentalism gimmicks (I never wanted to be a magician but somehow wound up thinking the two where entwined). I am now set on a clearer path and concentrating on learning traditional stage hypnosis. I personally found street hypnosis training was still a good stepping stone despite its reputation here on the forum but agree it’s not a standalone genre, it needs to be built on or used by an already competent hypnotist under the right controlled situation, not a simplistic mind trick any magician can add to his/her list of tricks.

So I don't believe this is a bully club, yes its a little harsh and withholding at times but don't expect answers delivered on a silver spoon and hopefully theres something positive to take out from it.
Mindpro
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Sometimes the truth and reality is harsh, especially to the unskilled and uninformed beginner. I think in reality the regular advice offered is A.) understand hypnosis is not a "trick" or "effect", B.) Get he proper training at all costs (none available in my area or I cant afford proper training is really too bad, that's an excuse or shows your lack of seriousness), C.) don't attempt shortcuts or substitutes for the real thing, D.) be concerned with safety and proper knowledge (far more than with magic or mentalism or most other types of performances, E.) safeguard and protect yourself against lawsuits, and F.) understand the expectations of the audience and volunteers.

It's really quite simple. I think the problem come sin in how it's asked, that we have no idea who these guys are or their level of interest or experience and as you said you had misconceptions about it as you approached us here with your interests. This all comes into play. Plus this is not where one should come for their education. We are happy to help and offer advice based on experience, but in no way should participation here be considered education or training.

What I've never understood is is when guys get bent when they hear something they don't want to hear. Sometimes guys need a bit of tough love or assistance to create the proper reality, which few will realize or admit. Also if these guys can't handle a little heat here, how in the h**l are they going to handle hypnosis in the real world?
Gismologic
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Question to this fine group..

Would it be bold to assume that more often than not, the path to voluntarily learning a new skill(knowledge) requires the following steps :
- Curiosity ?
- Research ?
- Exposure ?
- Commitment ?
- Practice ?

Who hasn't found that our motivations (the "Why's) often change and vary in intensity as we move forward through this acquisition of knowledge ?
We may start someplace..and end up someplace else, Bob Burns comes to mind..

The subconscious is a marvelous, mysterious and ever deepening frontier that I for one, will continue to explore.
I admittedly don't dwell in these "hypno" threads .. It seems like every other paragraph here is sprinkled with Judgment.



-
Shrubsole
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Kent, England
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So a thread about two people has been taken over by those two people and everyone else 'corrected' by them.

Irony at its very best!
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
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Quote:
On May 22, 2016, Shrubsole wrote:
So a thread about two people has been taken over by those two people and everyone else 'corrected' by them.

Irony at its very best!


Yea no agenda on your part.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Gismologic
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Hmm.. perhaps "The Eternal Order" has it's own responsibilities to "the order".. backbiting and some inscrutable score settling seems to be it's primary function at this end of the pool..
When I look at these threads it certainly doesn't smack of Brethren.
Dannydoyle
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Doesn't "Brethren " imply a shared knowledge and experience?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Slim King
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Orlando
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ROTFLMAO Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
I love everyone calling each other a troll just because they don't agree. Glad I'm not a hypnotist....
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Dannydoyle
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So is the world in general.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
writeall
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Midland, Michigan
930 Posts

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It's all fake anyhow.
mindpunisher
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Not everyone calls everyone a Troll it was just that Troll James......

So stop being a Troll Slim...

Im glad Im not a Troll
ProfessorMagicJMG
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If you feel your thread is being hijacked by trolls, just report it to the admins without comment on the thread. They are quick and responsive and will shut it down quickly.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Clarke's 3rd Law

"Any sufficiently primitive technology can mystify a postmodern audience." - JMG's Corollary to Clarke's 3rd Law
Chris Meece
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Somerset Kentucky
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Funny that you received responses from the two culprits within the first few responses. I quit coming to this board as well because of them. I came here when I was staring out .. got tremendous help from others on the board and learned how to do this crazy thing. I used DVDs and books to learn from but because I didn't attend a stage hypnosis seminar or multiple seminars I was simply a hack like everyone else. It grew old very fast.

When I finally invent a way to punch people through the computer screen I'll become a millionaire.
All small town magicians know what 793.8 signifies.
Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
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Yea no punching. Just crying and whining crying through very clear

Come to Las Vegas and punch me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Chris Meece
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Somerset Kentucky
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You wouldn't like that very much.
All small town magicians know what 793.8 signifies.
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