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Tim Friday
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I do not recall the schedule ever being published, rather it was the list of speakers. It would have helped if the schedule had been published then I could have known when the key presentations were that I wanted to see. Maybe it was and I just didn't see it.

Then I might have been able to see them, and as a result purchased the program so I could have gone back and watched them again.

Another good to way to have done it would have been to only make certain presentations for free, or make certain ones preview only, then pay for the full program. It is a worthy point for us all the acknowledge - there are different ways it could have been rolled out, each way has it's advantages and disadvantages.
Donald Dunphy
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BTW, I know a few people who have already paid for the VIP Instant Access / Full Access package, and the "free" series isn't even done yet. They just see the value in it.

I'll likely buy the VIP Instant Access / Full Access package at some point, when it works a bit better for my budget. I'll admit that it's my fault I don't have the money for it just now. Not his fault for trying to sell it to me. Smile

- Donald

P.S. As per my quote of the first email you get from Magic Master Summit, there is a link to the schedule. So, it's there from the beginning, too. He also shared the link (again) in follow up emails. You really should go back and read those emails.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Donald Dunphy
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I just checked through some other emails. In a July 9 email from David, he put the schedule right in the email. No need to even click a link.

But links were in several of the other emails, including the very first email.

I kind of get the sense that you just deleted the emails after quickly glossing them over.

- Donald

P.S. Reza's video was excellent. It's the first one I've watched today.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2016, Tim Friday wrote:
Another good to way to have done it would have been to only make certain presentations for free, or make certain ones preview only, then pay for the full program. It is a worthy point for us all the acknowledge - there are different ways it could have been rolled out, each way has it's advantages and disadvantages.


This is another example of understanding and respecting someone's business model, rather than only seeing it through your eyes and how it would best appeals to you. We see this all the time here with performers perceptions towards prospects and clients. Look at it as a sample or tease and if you want more or the whole thing, great $197 please. For someone that may not know much of this material that would be a bargain at triple the price. One must invest in their profession and invest in their success. If these guys and their topics are of interest to you and your business plan/model, pay the what $7 per interview (average, and no, they're not available individually, again that is not the business model here) and open your mind and learn. If not, that's okay too, it's not for you, bit there's no need to make accusations and complain.

They even offered Bill's feature in advance for free for several days if not closer to a week. For some like tommiepickles it might have been great and of value, to me there was nothing there I haven't know for years and I thought it was incomplete and could have gone deeper on more important aspects rather than he did. Again, these are also to sell each of their individual products and courses as well to get all/the rest of the info too. I'm sure many are finding value in it.
barts185
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On Jul 21, 2016, Donald Dunphy wrote:
I just checked through some other emails. In a July 9 email from David, he put the schedule right in the email. No need to even click a link.

But links were in several of the other emails, including the very first email.




And it was even IN BOLD!

Reading comprehension is hard! Smile
MJE
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I've looked at some of it. Not much, so I can't objectively review it. I can only review what I've seen. There seems to be some good information, but it does also seem generally to be a week-long ad for Brad Ross information products. I saw the one with Sean, which was very good. He wasn't selling anything, and he's a really good guy. Three "lectures," however, have been Ross ads so far. I'm sure his are good products and that he is a talented performer. I'm just not sure why people would actually pay to watch these ads.

The other I tried to get through was a very long commercial selling a way to spam your audience with text messages. Yow..... Is this the wave of the future? Let's hope not.

I only saw a short bit of the Robert Stephens conversation and wish I had the time for the whole thing. It looks great so far, but I don't know if he turns half of it into a commercial (I rather doubt that he does). There may be others that are of value (I may have just picked the wrong ones), but so far it looks like an enormous pitch. But then, I always enjoy dealer shows at conventions.
Donald Dunphy
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Shawn Farquhar's talk on "Making Magic More Memorable" was the best of the talks I've seen so far (a couple of days ago). I've known Shawn for years, and I've spent time with him. (I even bought a stage illusion from him once.) But I'm always learning more from him.

He talked about being memorable / genuine / personable / friendly / sharing yourself, great points about mentoring, working well with tech people, etc. More than connecting with an audience... connecting with people in general. He talked about a giveaway item he uses in his show (and to only one child). He also shared some really great info about his style of BOR -- how he created his DVD, what he says when he sells it and why, etc. I want to create my own DVD in the future (not an instant author one), so I was really interested in what Shawn shared on that topic. Lots of examples to back up his points of view about the various topics he touched on. He talked about kids shows as well as cruise ships and corporate. Shawn even talked about show costumes at one point.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
barts185
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2016, MJE wrote:
I've looked at some of it. Not much, so I can't objectively review it. I can only review what I've seen. There seems to be some good information, but it does also seem generally to be a week-long ad for Brad Ross information products. I saw the one with Sean, which was very good. He wasn't selling anything, and he's a really good guy. Three "lectures," however, have been Ross ads so far. I'm sure his are good products and that he is a talented performer. I'm just not sure why people would actually pay to watch these ads.

The other I tried to get through was a very long commercial selling a way to spam your audience with text messages. Yow..... Is this the wave of the future? Let's hope not.

I only saw a short bit of the Robert Stephens conversation and wish I had the time for the whole thing. It looks great so far, but I don't know if he turns half of it into a commercial (I rather doubt that he does). There may be others that are of value (I may have just picked the wrong ones), but so far it looks like an enormous pitch. But then, I always enjoy dealer shows at conventions.



For someone that doesn't want to watch ads, it seems odd that you chose ones which were very likely to be ads. Did you think that there wasn't going to be any attempt to generate revenue other than selling the set of videos which were free for 24 hours?

I was actually concerned that they all (or the vast majority) were going to be upsell videos - and while some are, there are plenty which aren't and are just interviews with no selling at all.

I also really liked Shawn Farquhar'a talk. Brad Ross and David Farr do actually give away a system which they supposedly sell for $197, so even they aren't JUST selling (although there's little doubt you'll receive pitches for things).


While there is a podcast like quality to these, that's to be expected (or at least I expected it) in that if you JUST wanted to say, "Okay, give me the tips that are interspersed throughout this hour long video - I don't care about your background, or history, or stories, or anything - JUST GIVE ME THE ADVICE - and don't sell me anything!!!", they would would be 5 minutes long but not as enjoyable.
DaveWomach
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Thanks for the feedback guys.
thomasR
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The summit was a lot of fun. The Brad Ross presentations were sales presentations for his courses. That's a shame... In my opinion it makes him look way more unprofessional and desperate.

Josh Knotts gave awesome info on fairs and festivals, Chris and Neal give great advice on dominating a kid show market in a region, Tim Clothier was awesome to hear speak on advice about working on custom illusions, Wacky Chad went into detail on street performing, and Dave himself talked about cruise ships. My favorites were Rick Thomas (just inspiring to me), and Bill Gladwell.

Great resource And it really gets your mind working.
Mindpro
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I think David did a great job, as having done these events before I know how much work and coordination it takes to execute one of these. I agree with the Brad Ross sentiments. I completely understand he is in the magic information business, but it would be nice for once to see him offer some goods with no strings attached - expecting nothing but supporting the audience he targets without all of the infomarketer components. Kind of a "thank you" for his current customers, perhaps an influencer for those that are not yet customers of his but are well aware of his offerings, and as a way to "truly give back" as many say they do.

While the lineup was quite interesting, I think there were a couple of key components missing. So many of the guests seemed to be for those already workers, who may be looking to advance or explore another or other specific ideas and niches. What was greatly missing was the foundational elements of creating, establishing and operating an entertainment business.

So much emphasis was on topics for performers of a certain level only - book more shows, double your income, get higher priced shows, getting better shows, negotiating higher prices, make six figures, and so on. Almost every one of these topics is based on someone already having a properly functional and operating entertainment business.

However, many that are currently doing shows at this level and even more so those looking to start performing for money, those performing part-time looking to go full-time or those that are currently either part or full-time that are struggling to get shows, struggling to build and establish clients, credibility, and positioning - they need and are seeking more basic and core information and systems of entertainment business operations. Structure, assistance and core elements.

Most are aware that a good show is needed, then they mistakenly think all they need to then do is start marketing for bookings. However, as I have regularly shared here, there is the entire majority segment between the two where you properly create the foundational decisions and elements, create their business and marketing plans and goals, addressing all of the major foundational questions and decisions that without doing properly will only allow them to build their business on a wobbly, unstable foundation. Then of course is creating the business operational system that allows you to sell, market and present your show, create and focus on the 5 types of bookings all entertainers should be pursuing, and of course create the systems to allow for a much higher closing and conversion rate rather than the typical 15-20% obtained by most performers.

Success in entertainment is created in the business behind the performance. While the "business" was discussed in relation to certain niche or individual areas (2/4 walling, fairs & fests, kids business, etc.) all of those would be much more effective and in a proper logical order AFTER the business foundational aspects were are presented, addressed, explained and in place.

I think that could have tied many of the other presenters together rather than having what seemed at times more like a variety of unrelated guests and topics participating together. Murray was good on publicity, but again, many may not have been close to that point as they were more still in the starting blocks area. Again, for workers or pros many of these topics and guests were more beneficial.

Also although it was said to be for mentalists, hypnotists, and other variety performers, it really wasn't. It was primarily for magicians. It was created and positioned towards magicians and magician's thinking.

Again, just a few thoughts from a perspective other than just a magician. Still, great job, and the final lifetime offer is really a great value whether you are at the point of these yet or not. With lifetime access, hopefully many will be at some point in the future. Congratulations David!
charliecheckers
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I really did not see much in the way of description for any of the lectures. "How to make six figure income doing X" really does not provide insight on the content. While there is a lot of content for the asking price, I am not sure how relevant the intent is for my specific purposes. The few comments several have posted here is all that I have read about the reviews or content. I now I missed the free video week, but is there something more I am missing?
Tim Friday
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Charlie,
I only saw a few of the videos, Bill Gladwell, the one about text messaging, and the one about strolling close-up magic at restaurants. It was good information, there were some pearls in parts of the some of the videos, and some were more of an overview/introduction which is what the timeframe allowed.

I will say this, Coaching (depending on the coach) or a course is the best way to learn because it will dive deep into growing your business, videos such as these with the Summit is a good way to learn especially if you are interested in some of the topics, In that sense, I wish you had been able to at least watch some of the videos.
Mindpro
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On Jul 24, 2016, Tim Friday wrote:

I will say this, these videos on the Summit are a much better place to learn than the magic Café...but the magic Café is by far the worst way to learn.



Interesting opinion. Not true, but interesting. While no one ever said the Café was a learning device, there is much than can be learned and taken form here. However learning is based on attitude, openness to receive and accept information and a positiveness to initiate others to want to help, teach or assist you. You talk far too definitive, stern and for someone who is still in the initial learning stages themselves. That doesn't make the source or vehicle (the Café) by any means "the worst way to learn." Again, another of your personal slams on us here and this place, yet you still keep coming here?

Many of us do use the methods and techniques like those you are referring to in the summit for our coaching and teachings.

As I've said before, you don't seem to want to heed anything from those here. So it seems you are the one that is making this the "worst way to learn" because of your approach and attitude towards it and us here.

Again, with the stern criticism based only on your opinion and certainly not fact. So many have stated otherwise to what they have taken from the Café, this forum and those participating here in the community.

Again, so why do you make these unsupportive, opinionated claims when you could be taking in so much more by heeding the advice from your participation here? I've asked this before and you chose not to answer this.
Dannydoyle
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It is tough to learn when all you want to do is tell everyone what you know. Learning is generally done with the mouth closed and ears open. Rarely happens here.

If you went at these videos, or any other method of learning the same way you came here you would not benefit at all. The benefit of these videos is you can't talk back.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Tim Friday
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The Café is a place for discussion, not a place to learn.

Like Eugene Burger said "Whoever is the loudmouth on online forums has the status of Dai Vernon." They don't have to prove their credibility, anyone can log on with any code name that hides who they really are, but because they make posts with a dismissive, authoritative, condescending tone they are perceived as knowledgable and high status on the Café.

The reason the Magic Summit is so much better for learning than the Café has much to do with credibility. It was produced by an active performer, David DaVinci, who has experience working and published using his actual name as a performer. All of his guests were recognized figures in the magic/entertainment community, many of them are considered business gurus when it comes to entertainment business. This furthered David's credibility as well as the Magic Summit's credibility.

Anyone who posts on Magic Café has no credibility. Even if they post using a credible name, how can one know if it is actually that person or not? Take everything on the Café with a grain of salt.

Again, the best way to learn is from a coach, after that would be from a course that will take you in a specific direction with your business. After that would be programs like Magic Summit or a Magic Business Podcast like Successful Performercast, or something along these lines.

Much further down the list is Magic Café. It is a place to discuss, not to learn. It is possible to learn here but consider the costs, you must sift through a hodge podge of opinions, many will not work for your business, until you find something that works, even still it is just a brief post, and this is very different from the specific and focused instruction one gains from coaching or from a course.

Finally consider the tone. It isn't any wonder top professionals refuse to post here with all the cyberbullying and chiding of younger members. Maybe some posts make great points, yet the condescending tone ruins the point.

Doc Eason says "People won't remember what you do or say, but they will always remember how you made them feel." Or something to that effect, and this is flaw of the Café, members post with no regard to how it makes others feel.

To sum it up:
1) Magic Café has the lowest credibility, who knows who is really posting, remember the Eugene Burger quote about online credibility
2) There are significantly better resources for learning, look for resources that are credible, refer to this thread with the list of the top courses for learning to grow your business: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=44
3) Rather than being a place of constructive help, the Café is a place of negative discourse, and this tone often ruins posts that could contain many pearls, remember Doc Eason's wise quote
Dannydoyle
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So how do you think it made someone FEEL when you said they used "bait and switch tactics" Tim? Never backed it up, never said you were wrong but plow ahead no matter what. How did that make Dave FEEL?

You have lost ALL credibility. Your learning problem is yours and nobody else. You can't learn from here that is all you buddy. Ask guys like Charlie who manage to listen and not talk. You want to TELL and DISCUSS, not LISTEN. There is a huge difference. If you actually spent as much time listening and learning as you do complaining about others you might have half a chance at learning. You can't learn when all you do is point fingers, or tell others how to act.

Too bad you don't see the irony of the fact that when you do that YOU are the problem. Again why bother coming here at all?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Tim Friday
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Danny, I meant bait and switch as a persuasive/communications term, not as a legal term
charliecheckers
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Quote:
On Jul 24, 2016, Tim Friday wrote:
I will say this, these videos on the Summit are a much better place to learn than the magic Café. Coaching (depending on the coach) or a course is the best way to learn because it will dive deep into growing your business, videos such as these with the Summit is a good way to learn especially if you are interested in some of the topics, but the magic Café is by far the worst way to learn. In that sense, I wish you had been able to at least watch some of the videos.


As an active member here for 5+ years, I can speak from personal experience with respect to how valuable TMC can be in knowing, and growing ones entertainment business. While videos and lectures can help, I believe true discourse provides the best results. In a community like this, we have an opportunity to draw upon the talent and wisdom of an extremely large and diverse group. Getting to know a bit about each other and our businesses allows for input that offers a unique personal component. The exposure to those who we would otherwise have no access to alone makes this an extremely exciting resource. Additionally, I have forged productive relationships with members that transcends my participation here or my geographical location.

I do think one benefits most when they are willing to engage in discussions. Often, this means that your ego has to be left behind and you have to allow yourself to be vulnerable.
If more of us came here with no other agenda than to share, learn and grow, TMC Tricky Business could operate on a level difficult to rival. When lay people ask me how I was able to grow my business and performance, I always share that blogging with entertainers across the world has allowed me to pick some of the greatest minds in entertainment and entertainment business. I share how impressive and detailed some of the discussions are. I never share the pettiness and nonsense that also goes on here, because it is our dirty laundry.

I do wonder if others ever contemplate what we could cause with more active genuine participation and engagement here. Tim's response to me sharing that TMC is "by far the worst way to learn" counters my own experience and seems like an awkward statement from a member. It serves to potentially deter others from seeking value here, which shrinks the talent pool and adversely affects us all.
Mindpro
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So much truth in this post of charlies. Point is Tim doesn't participate and contribute but rather chooses to critique and criticize. There is so much that could directly be applied to him and his business (more than some generic magic or marketing courses) but for whatever reason since first appearing here there has been a tone and chip on his shoulder. Not the way a newbie and newer performer will become welcomed into a community and will get the most out of this great resource.

This is a conscious decision he chooses for whatever reason. Besides personal coaching (which I agree with Tim on) there is information here that could directly improve and progress his business, performance and bottom line directly. However, he chooses not to see it as that, which still brings us then to why offer your nuggets of uninformed wisdom and deliberate slams, disses and bashing? It in no way serves progress here, in no way helps you (Tim), and as charlie says deters others from being here, learning or participating.

You're missing the boat here completely. BY believing your own distorted perception, you are making yourself miss out on so much of what can be presented to you.

"
I do think one benefits most when they are willing to engage in discussions. Often, this means that your ego has to be left behind and you have to allow yourself to be vulnerable."- I couldn't agree more.
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