This one is for Cag. It's when you wanna stack cards during winter, in Klondyke...

http://www.arnoldmcdonald.org/temp/faro8a.avi (71.8MB)

Thanks for posting so many high quality videos lately Arnold. It's a pleasure to watch.

Nice work Arnold. In fact I think you work much much better in gloves. From now on, gloves only please for all manipulations.

One thing I noticed is you are in a t-shirt. You must be a very hearty guy if you are can go around in a t-shirt at 10 degrees below zero in the Klondike.

It's because I want the others players to know that I conceal nothing up my sleeves.

Now that is dedication. At 10 degrees below zero you are unstoppable...that is, until you freeze over.

Found some clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa_lwuxrCQ0

Just out of curiosity, I see that we have had a lot of activity regarding the Faro and Simulated Riffle Shuffle Table Faro on this thread. I also know that almost everyone on this board who has expressed interest in learning or mastering this move is a magician, hobbyist, demonstrator or dilettante. What perplexes me is what do you guys do with this move when and if you master it?

I am not being critical, facetious or judgmental in any way by asking this, but I am sincerely interested which is why I ask this question. I can see that exposing the fact that you can do a second or bottom deal and then demonstrating how well you do it has some value to an audience - after all, ostensibly that is the ways people cheat at cards, right? At least that is the rationale behind the demo. Also these two moves can be used secretly in a card trick or gambling demo although that is more difficult to do deceptively.

But being able to cut the cards at 26 and messing the entire deck card for card at the gaming tables is rarely if ever done that way. So what do you do with this move when mastered for "demo" purposes?

Is it primarily the joy of mastery, to show others how skillful you are, or can it actually be used effectively in gambling demonstrations and what is the rationale to the audience. Yes, I know it can be helpful as part of a riffle stack, but in that case cutting at 26 and meshing the entire deck card for card would be completely unnecessary. I also know that some cards tricks use the faro principle but in that case most magicians do the mesh in their hands and don't use the butt shuffle or table "riffle" faro.

So I am really curious because so much interest has been shown here, which of course is good for the BB, but what do you do with this move for gambling style demo purposes once you master it?

Well Cag, I'm afraid that there are not "that" many Magicians who do a table Faro. For the hobbyists, I think it doesn't go much further than a video on youtube.

If that is so, and I don't doubt your observation of this, than it is somewhat sad in my opinion.

I am not part of the demo/expose community and don't personally know anyone in that arena, but from my perspective it is absolutely incomprehensible to me that the rationale, or at least the end result for learning a move like the table faro, would be to do a YouTube demo or just to demo the move and do nothing else with it.

This is not a criticism nor a condemnation but simply an observation.

In the gambling and hustling arena, people learn a move for a specific purpose and that is to get the money. To them, with few exceptions, it is inconceivable to learn a move if you don't use it for that specific purpose. They rarely learn any move, technique or methodology unless it can get the money for them. To them, that is exclusively what the moves or methods are for - their sole purpose - period.

However, for others, I can see that pride of mastery or the challenge of accomplishment may be their primary motivation. But in that case, why not learn to play the piano and make beautiful music instead?

Then again, a Steinway Grand Piano is a little more expensive that a deck of cards.

Maybe it's cultural as well. People are not necessarily obsessed with money. I mean, people can do things just because they wanna do it, because it's fun to do it, etc. and not because it could bring some money into their pockets.

And there's no need to judge others here, I can talk for myself. I do a plenty of stuff that takes me a *** bunch of time and I don't get a single penny out of it. Egyptology for instance (which is much more difficult than card stacking and muuuuuch more time consuming). Call it a hobby I suppose.

Don't you do anything just for the fun of it Cag?

Absolutely, and the older I get the more things I do just for fun.

However, with card and dice handling,it was pride of accomplishment that was the primary motivation, and indirectly the enjoyment of such accomplishment. At one time or another, I tackled just about every card and dice move I was aware of.

Not as challenging as learning to play Chopin or Beethoven, but more fun.

IF REQUESTED to determine from what single artifice the greatest advantage is derived we would unhesitatingly decide in favour of dead cutting.

I would love to do a perfect riffle shuffle simply because everyone says it is impossible.

I lift weights, and barbells do not have a purpose outside of exercise gym, and yet a lot people do it.
Which is to say, sometimes you have to do strange stuff to get results in other areas.

And no, I would never do a YouTube video exposing any method.
I would never go beyond a simple explanation stating, "I can control the cards".
No mention of moves (second, center, bottom dealing). Nothing.

There are two highest points in card handling.

1. To be a showman who gets the money/recognition in cruise ships/shows/table hopping/demos.

2. To cheat at the card table.

Simple as that.

"People are not necessarily obsessed with money."

Exactly

I can't explain it. I don't plan on using a faro in any demo type setting, or anywhere else for that matter. There's just nothing better than practicing, and the harder the move, the more fun it is. I'm sure many of the people here agree.
I'm not trying to reach any point, I'm just trying to have fun along the way. Who knows, if I ever do master the tabled faro, maybe then I'll start using it, but that's not the point.
And while my plan is certainly not to boast with my skills on youtube, I wonder what the difference is between someone who uploads a video of an excellent tabled faro, or someone playing Beethoven on a piano. The people who watch it/ listen to it enjoy it, and that's pretty much the end of it.

I certainly agree with that and when I was young and learning these moves, it was the fun and challenge of it all that was my primary motivation. Of course, I also had a secondary motive which was the field of gambling itself rather than just "moves." Reading through all the Scarne and MacDougall books, Sharps and Flats, the Police Gazette and "KC Card Company" catalog, I realized that the field of gambling was tremendously broad and the Erdnase/manipulative moves perspective was just a tiny portion of that arena.

Even more challenging and greater fun was taking an existing move and improving or coming up with better ways to do it and also eliminating all extraneous or unnecessary movements within the move itself. All cheating moves have "tells" if you know what to look for. My aim was to eliminate as many tells as I could and make the move look as close to "normal" as possible.

Of course, that particular objective would not apply to demonstrations and demonstrators nowadays since the Forte school of mastery is in large part geared to "show" and the old "gambling type" moves are primarily used for demonstrations.


The quest is never ending and as least as enjoyable as the end result. There is always something "more" to learn and accomplish.



I agree. They both can be enjoyable to watch or listen to...but...I suggest music might be a little more complex and have considerably more breath. Of course, if we are comparing it to "rap," then we can equate that to a completely inept bottom deal that hangs up and leaks badly.

Sadly having fun comes at a cost. While you are having fun, the professional is working away studying his game to gain knowledge and putting into practice what he knows every day. When the fun loving amateur meets the hard working pro the amateur will have to get lucky. Such is life.

I have to say that I have really been enjoying the forum lately and some of the post were very informative and inspiring such as videos from AMcD and Joey. So I decided to shoot a quick video showing how I do the table faro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3L7dGxI0to

The cards are really worn bee cards and the first shuffle is the real one followed by two faros to show the difference.

Really nice one tegib.

Indeed!