The Magic Cafť
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ The Gambling Spot Ľ Ľ Slick sleeve (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2291 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
No fun getting caught. People can get very violent when they think you are cheating them out of their money.

Don't understand why that is. We are all just having fun, right?
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devilís Island
15457 Posts

Profile of tommy
Here in Birmingham, we have a China Quarter. We lived there in my fatherís apartment for some years. The China Palace casino and the small bookie shop there take more money than all other casinos and bookies in the city put together. The Chinese are crazy gamblers, in fact, that is all the Chinese seemed to do for fun. However, only one Chinaman played poker and he was the boss. He was the only one we all knew personally. The other kept themselves to themselves. I used to pick the boss up and take him poker games. I sometimes picked him up from a majiang which was the biggest cash game I ever seen. No Englishmen there only Chinese fellers. There are a few Chinese now that play poker here but back then he was the only one. He got busted once for attempting to bribe the gambling commission in trying to buy a casino. I spent a year in jail with him which was fun. Olwin he was a wonderful guy.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
AMcD
View Profile
Inner circle
stacking for food!
3106 Posts

Profile of AMcD
No, it certainly is not funny to get caught. Even for $100 or $50, people who think they've been cheated can become mad. You just can face a few punches, but it can be very rough as well. That's why all those wannabees cheats make me laugh.

One has to be really stupid to cheat with a holdout. When you get caught, and you will, you can't avoid to face very embarrassing moments.
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devilís Island
15457 Posts

Profile of tommy
In reality, all you get is a slap on the wrist.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/pok......656.html
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
SimonCard
View Profile
Special user
601 Posts

Profile of SimonCard
"Valeriy Mikhaylets was an accomplished cheat who made just short of £60,000 profit in one poker game using sleight of hand."

I wonder what kind of sleight of hand he was using. He must be considered professional.
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devilís Island
15457 Posts

Profile of tommy
Marking cards using sandpaper. It may be as old as the hills but it is still quite a good way to do it because one could argue that the marks are simply a result of normal wear and tear. He though was caught with the sandpaper.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2291 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Jan 8, 2017, AMcD wrote:

One has to be really stupid to cheat with a holdout. When you get caught, and you will, you can't avoid to face very embarrassing moments.


Possibly, but let's see if there are other ways to look at this.

While it may be true that "getting caught" with a machine holdout may constitute prima facie evidence of cheating, one must weight the risk vs. the reward, the probability of getting caught and the consequences involved therein. Nowadays, in most of the bigger games were significant money can be made, one cannot deal the cards himself. In Baccarat, professional level poker games, Blackjack, Pai Gow Poker, Caribbean Stud and so on, the players cannot shuffle or deal the cards. Dealing seconds, peeking, hopping the cut, doing riffle stacks and a myriad of other manipulative moves are pretty much limited to low stakes, everyone deals, amateur games. Not always of course, but certainly more and more. So at the higher levels one must rely on "other methods" of getting the money, ranging from stupid "more balls than brains" plays on up to some pretty sophisticated methods. The fact is if you want to go for the big money, most of the time you can throw out the common "standard" moves discussed on this BB no matter how well you do them.

Playing a machine, slick sleeve or a bean shooter, where one can cheat even though he never deals the cards, can be done very deceptively in the right hands and be pretty much undetectable, so much so that it will fool most people who are aware of standard manipulative moves. It is unexpected, the move can be done at any time and when used judiciously by someone who is capable with grift sense and experience, is very hard to detect. Sure, when you read about something and see a half-assed expose on video that is one thing. However, when there are a myriad of things that can occur in a game and you are not VERY conversant with exactly what the possible tells are, if any, in the heat of play it is not so easy. So in the right hands, detection is unlikely. Used in the wrong hands by some clown, that is another story.

Of course, a capable cheat will immediately pull up the play if he senses suspicion before it gets to the "problem" stage. Also, if you are cheating in the casino environment the security personal have to be very careful before they confront someone suspected of cheating nowadays, assuming it gets to that point. If caught, one still has to be convicted in a court of law and even then, a few months in jail or community service for a worthwhile monetary gain is a risk some will take, especially since the play they were caught on is usually only a small part of the money they made on all the plays they were not caught on.

Because of lawsuits, one is more likely to be beat up if "suspected" of cheating in private games as opposed to casino games. In private games, the standard of proof can be considerably less because enraged players often don't need much proof. In the casino atmosphere, lawsuit for wrongful arrests or player abuse can amount to significant money for the casino operators and they will try to avoid that at all cost.

Like in the investment world, risk is commensurate with gain. The greater the risk the greater the potential reward. The key is to balance the risk vs. the potential reward. It is not so "dangerous" to use a machine in the right spots because if suspected it will usually be by someone who is also "capable" himself, that is, by another cheat. He may know what you are doing but won't say anything to you until after the game. That is what I have done and most capable people who are able to detect these things will do it that way. Heck, they may even want to team up with you.

It is the square johns, half-smarts and chumps that get crazy if they think they have been cheated.

All I can say is, it is not so simple to catch some of these things as it may appear to be at "first blush." In other words, paraphrase Artie Fufkinís pithy quote, "If you think you can catch it, maybe you canít." And if you do "maybe" catch it, perhaps he is part of a team. Now what do you do? Smile
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devilís Island
15457 Posts

Profile of tommy
Part of standard procedure in professional poker is the stub count to make sure no one is holding out. So when holding out how do you get around the stub count problem in poker?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
AMcD
View Profile
Inner circle
stacking for food!
3106 Posts

Profile of AMcD
Nice post Cag, but I was obviously referring to Poker games. My fault for not having specified it.

As tommy says, we count cards quite frequently, so it's not easy to holding out. Incidentally, how many times a few cards were "accidentally" found on the floor though Smile.
SimonCard
View Profile
Special user
601 Posts

Profile of SimonCard
Did this ever happen?
someone prepared a few high cards to switch in so the total number of cards in play stay the same, but he has to take the risk of displaying the same card as previously played or currently in other player's hand.
Just curious out of my imagination.
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2291 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Jan 9, 2017, tommy wrote:
Part of standard procedure in professional poker is the stub count to make sure no one is holding out. So when holding out how do you get around the stub count problem in poker?


The way I have seen it done is to come in with a small valued inconspicuous card and substitute it for a higher valued important card. At that point it is just a matter of going "in and out."

It is surprising how long a duplicate small valued card can go unnoticed as in say Hold'em because most hands are not even shown down. Eventually it will be found but where did it come from and sometimes it can even be cleaned up. Not the best way to work, but certainly feasible and workable.

However, I would say nowadays professional poker, where they count down the stub or use a shuffling machine, is not necessarily the best game to hold out a card in. There are much better games like Baccarat and Double deck Blackjack where that problem is not encountered and in fact, even bigger money can be made and made much faster. Not all cheating is geared to poker - there are other great games to beat which are preferable. It might take some time to win good money at poker because one has to wait for the right situation to come up, but in some of the other casino games, one can do it in five minutes.

Less time - more money make for happy campers.

There are many casino pros who never play poker
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2291 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Jan 9, 2017, SimonCard wrote:

Did this ever happen?

someone prepared a few high cards to switch in so the total number of cards in play stay the same, but he has to take the risk of displaying the same card as previously played or currently in other player's hand.


Yes it did happen - more that once. When they first come out with the shoes in Nevada, muck teams would go in and muck out 10 low cards and muck in 10 high cards, so the number of cards remained the same. Then the card counters would hit the game because at that point the shoe would be favorable most of the time, that is until the casino personnel wised up as to what was happening. Against a four deck shoe, the duplicates were not noticeable during play especially since the cards were dealt face down during that time period.

Strictly a "rough and tumble" play which lasted for while.

SimonCard, you are not considering a career in crime, are you? Smile
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devilís Island
15457 Posts

Profile of tommy
Well adding a card will not beat the stub count because then the dealer will know from the count there is one too many. Do you mean add one and hold one out at the same time? I canít see playing with a duplicate lasting for very long.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2291 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Jan 9, 2017, tommy wrote:

Do you mean add one and hold one out at the same time?


Yes, that is what I said in my post - substitute one card for another.
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devilís Island
15457 Posts

Profile of tommy
Sorry, I misread it. The cash game of choice here is Omaha dealers choice 4, 5 or 6 cards. Now counting the stub is particularly quick and easy in this game because normally there are only a few cards left in stub to count as players usually call for the max. Over and over again, hand after hand the same small number of cards are left in the stub to count. The dealers know by simply spreading the stub a little whether or not they are all correct or not, you see.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
SimonCard
View Profile
Special user
601 Posts

Profile of SimonCard
@ Cagliostro

Nooo, I don't have that kind of guts. I'm just a hobbyist who finds gambling moves to be more fascinating than card tricks. I once got caught bottom dealing when playing cards with friends in high school. All we got was some laugh, no pressure at all.
SimonCard
View Profile
Special user
601 Posts

Profile of SimonCard
Https://youtu.be/p5tEI-rY-S0

another interesting video of slick sleeve. Hope you enjoy it.
Peterson
View Profile
Regular user
134 Posts

Profile of Peterson
Not only slick but fashionable too!
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19095 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Interestingly enough here in Nevada they don't need to beat you up any more. They have made punishment for cheating so serve it is probably better for the casino as a deterrent to just let the system take over. Certainly from a liability standpoint it makes sense. They have lobbied for very large sentences.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ The Gambling Spot Ľ Ľ Slick sleeve (3 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2018 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.15 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL