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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » 'Hypnotist' attorney sentenced to 12 years (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Terry Holley
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The following report was published in my local online newspaper. I'm interested what those of you who practice hypnotism think of the charges and verdict.

http://www.medina-gazette.com/Medina-Cou......ars.html

Thank you,

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Dannydoyle
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In America there is no such charge as "used hypnotic skills to control six women for his own sexual gratification" so how he could plead guilty to it is beyond me.

"Fine, 59, entered guilty pleas to five counts of kidnapping and one count of attempted kidnapping during a September hearing a week before his trial was set to begin. Each of those charges carries a sexual motivation specification." These are the actual crimes he was convicted of.

Anyone who kidnaps and assaults people belongs in jail. I can speak freely for everyone on this board that they feel EXACTLY the same way. We may disagree on a lot of things here but unless I am completely wrong about charecter NOBODY condones sexual assault.

If a guy uses Boy Scout knots to kidnap and tie up women does it reflect on the Boy Scouts? Would you ask them what they all thought of it?

The guy is barley human trash.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Terry Holley
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Danny,

I must have miscommunicated. I wasn't asking what you thought about the person charged or his crimes. When I asked what hypnotists in this forum thought of the charges and verdict, I was meaning, "Do you think that a hypnotist/hypnotism can bring this effect about and that these accusers were actually under a trance, could not help themselves and acted against their will."

The article states, "Fine was accused of putting the woman into a trance and giving her sexual commands." And as you pointed out, the accused "pleaded guilty to charges he used hypnotic skills to control six women for his own sexual gratification."

I asked the question because I have heard in the past that a hypnotist cannot make a person do anything that they don't want to do. See link below:

From http://www.aaph.org/hypnosis-FAQ - The American Association of Professional Hypnotherapists is a worldwide organization that provides knowledge, tools and resources to professional hypnotherapists in order to support their success in small business and in the hypnotherapy industry. (I have no clue how legitimate this group is)

"Hypnosis can not make you do something that is against your morals or ethics. All hypnosis is self-hypnosis, in truth, and no hypnotist can make you do something that you really don't want to do."

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Dannydoyle
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I don't feel or think in one way or the other. He is a predator who took advantage of women and a rapist. Hypnosis is not relevant.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Terry Holley
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Next?
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
WitchDocChris
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It's a touchy subject, and probably not one for this particular forum. The rules state that discussion of the theory of hypnosis is not kosher - and this will immediately end up in the theory.
Christopher
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Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Mindpro
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I don't see it that way at all. I also don't see a "next." The crime here was not because of hypnosis. Someone would have to be willing to respond to any suggestions as we all know. She/they wasn't hypnotized to do anything against her will. Hypnosis is compliance. This is why subjects in a stage show (or therapy) will respond to some suggestions and not others. They have complete control and respond how they choose. Nothing against their will. So the hypnosis factors should be a non-issue. Any decent attorney should have had no problem supporting this. It is really only about the kidnapping and sexual charges.
Djin
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I don't think this is really a hypnosis story. I have no idea what happened, but the agreed upon narrative sounds implausible.

Unless we want to make comparisons between courtroom performances and stage theatrics, there isn't much to really dig into. There are a lot of reasons defendants plead guilty. The truth being one possibility, but its one among many. If this had gone to trial, the facts would be public and we could talk about them. This ended in a plea, so the evidence isn't going to be laid out and argued for a jury. All we have is allegations that the defendant declined to fight. He clearly did something, because a 12 year sentence was better than fighting the charge, but I will bet that whatever happened is not what is alleged.

To paraphrase another article I read about this case, are we to believe that a lawyer who couldn't cast a shadow of doubt across this ridiculous story is able to pull off an unprecedented feat of persuasion with six separate women?

I'm not buying it.
thementalcoach
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And sensational hypnosis headlines sell papers (and get clicks/views). When asked the "hypnosis mind control" question, my standard response is: "if I could really hypnotize someone and make them do what I say, then I'd go hypnotize Bill Gates, he'd write me a check for a zillion dollars and thank me for allowing him to do it." People usually get a reality check from that.
David Kenward - The Mental Coach
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Magic, Mentalism and the Bizarre
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http://thementalcoach.com
friend2cptsolo
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Exactly mentalcoach; that headline is just used to draw you into the story. The further you read the more discrepancies there are.
"Once Fine put the woman into a trance, law enforcement raided the office and searched it for evidence, according to court documents." EVIDENCE OF WHAT, Induction words.... no they had to be looking for drugs or something.

I found yet another article about this and it does go into more detail about what he did and still there is no mention of drugging.

I find this a little hard to believe myself. Not that this guy did this but he "ONLY" used hypnosis.



"One woman told authorities she thought Fine hypnotized her numerous times on the phone and during meetings in his office and at conference rooms at the Lorain County Justice Center. She said she hired Fine in February 2013 for a custody dispute.

The woman decided to record phone conversations with Fine and then took those recordings to police. Court documents filed later by the Lorain County Bar Association said the recordings included when he placed the woman in a trance. " this is a few lines from Cosmo.
friend2cptsolo
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I guess this could be in the " Limits of hypnosis" post just a few spaces down; but what should have been an enlightening conversation quickly goes bad..... and now I am seeing that a lot of threads on HYPNO section end up this way.

Clearly there is a national news article that absolutely states women can be hypnotized to perform sexual acts, that is scary for a few reasons.
Dannydoyle
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Can you think of any other news articles that got the facts wrong?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
friend2cptsolo
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Well yeah of course. But every article I pull up is just an extension of this 1st one noted. I thought I would quickly run into an article with a little more substance to it.
Dannydoyle
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Welcome to new journalism. How sad.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
andrew124C41
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I have been unable to find the story. What I am guessing is that a number of women or one woman said that he got them to have sex with him as a result of having been hypnotized by him. I am a semi-retired physician. I have done hypnosis clinically. I have also been trained in a related field, biofeedback. As others have said, this is not possible. End of story. I have no idea how someone could be convicted on this basis
paul180
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To answer the OP, I think that "clinical hypnosis" hypnosis can be used to lower the inhibitions of a person to a point where they might behave contrary to their own wants and desires. Hell persuasion techniques, have been used to get women into bed for years without consequences. Having said that, imo it's ethically and morally wrong to use anything but honesty to woo a person. Present your best self sure but lie and your headed for the danger zone.

Oh and yes the predator in the story, is bile garbage. But I'm not judging Smile
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Wandering Man
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A psychologist in Corpus Christi was sentenced to prison for molesting teenage girls back in the 1990's. He used hypnosis as part of his treatment, and once he thought they were in a trance, he molested them. The first time he got caught, he was placed on probation. The state board also put him on probation and mandatory supervision under the psychologist I happened to be working for. Apparently the supervision, fines, extra ethical training, etc. required by the court didn't work. He moved out of state, and then was arrested when he lured one of his victims to fly out to see him.

In any event, he is now in prison.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/......5pxBV-b0
Never argue with drunks or crazy people.
Dannydoyle
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Well he is a child molester, and they have yet to find a cure for such a thing. The disturbing part is "the first time he got caught".
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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