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MarcoLostSomething Regular user 144 Posts |
Hello Everyone, I have been practicing some riffle stacking for a while following some beginner drills (some were also posted by AMcD in his thread), here I will present two of the drills I practice.
I can get up to 6 cards, after that I lose accuracy, so here I stopped at 5. The main issue is that I have sometimes to visually "check" at 4-5 cards if I got the right number, and that causes a brief hesitation when I have to drop down the top stack. Any comment about mistakes or improvements I can make are highly appreciated, I thank You in advance. PS: they're in black and white only because the colours sucked, as you can see I have no tattoos |
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Artie Fufkin Special user 853 Posts |
Very nice work.
Drill #1 displays a slight hesitation before dropping the slug from 3-5 cards. (1-2 cards was excellent). Wouldn't be noticeable to the average flattie though. Drill #2 wasn't as tight overall as #1. (BTW, I do like the black and white. For analytic purposes it seems much cleaner than color). |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Not bad, but here are a few things.
1) Don't forget that speed is for wannabees. Unjustified speed must be avoided at all cost. 2) Rhythm is everything. If the pace has no break, no rupture, it's gonna be hard to detect something wrong. 3) Avoid big gaps between the cards you stack and those you hold back. Ideal situation would be to have no gap at all, but it's difficult. Try to make them less noticeable. A bit of ranting now. I have never understood why you guys use this Erdnase/Forte/2_Curled_Fingers grip. The closed grip is 50,427,758 times better. Why would someone curl the ring finger and the pinkie above the cards? It just makes things more difficult, prevent to do fast Push-thrus, etc. Besides, the closed grip allows to conceal what you do . Anyway, why people use that Erdnase/Forte/2CF grip is still a mystery to me... |
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tegib Regular user 148 Posts |
I personally don't use the "Erdnase/Forte/2CF" grip but I think it looks a bit nicer and more stylish (for gambling demonstrations), however I found the closed grip to be more natural looking and I find the stacking to be easier. With that said I don't think that the open grip prevents me from doing fast push throughs.
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MarcoLostSomething Regular user 144 Posts |
@Artie: yes, B&W helps also to make it less tiring to watch, and it's easier to fix bad lighting.
At 4-5 cards I feel that brief delay before dropping the slug, mostly because I am checking by sigh for the correct number... Is it possible to look at the number without displaying a slight pause? @AMcD: 1) You're right, I got too involved in the repetitions and it became automatic to get more speed. 2) I guess it relates to the first point, could a slower pace with an homogeneous rhythm soften the hesitation? 3) Yeah I was thinking about that too... I'll work on that! For the grip, it may sound nonsense, but I use it because I like it: years ago I was using a closed grip but I looked way too tight, even in regular shuffles. And then by studying Forte's handling this grip came out and it's what I use now. Anyway a discussion about different grips for the riffle shuffle and their pros/cons would be interesting too, in the future. Thank You all! |
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CoffeeBeans New user Germany 39 Posts |
I agree with Arnold, when I use the Forte style grip the cards tend to bind a lot quicker, effectively making push thrus harder to execute. I prefer the closed shuffle as well.
I'd be interested in knowing what you guys think about the open grip. Apparently it's the one Marlo suggests for stacking (not suggesting Marlo is the authority on that topic guys, don't worry), but it seems to me like it would be almost impossible to make the shuffles look natural, without any visible hesitation. |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Of course, I speak from my experience here, but except in the casino/magic industry, I can't remember having seen someone holding a deck with the mechanic's grip or using what I call the Erdnase/Forte grip, with two fingers curled above the deck.
The people I know, the people I played with, they use what I'd call "natural" handling. The open grip for dealing (with or without thumb lifting when dealing the top card) and a standard grip for riffling. Not the closed grip, they usually hold the halves of the deck near the outer ends. I must admit I don't understand why people curl their fingers a la Erdnase/Forte. Yes, it's nice for demos... But I'm afraid that they use it mainly BECAUSE Forte uses it. A bit like Magicians praise Erdnase because Vernon did . |
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SimonCard Special user 601 Posts |
I've been wondering about the different riffle shuffle grips too. I started practicing stacking after I watched AMcD's drill demo and then I started paying attention to how people grip the halves.
Steve Forte seems having changed his grip in 52 from his grip in GPS. He never curled his forefingers above the deck in GPS but he is curling them in every shuffle in 52. I tried and it feels so awkward. Another thing, I'm confused by the term 'closed riffle' and 'open riffle'. I thought 'closed' means you grip near the inner ends and 'open' means you grip near the outer ends. But some posts indicated 'open' means you curl your third and fourth fingers on top the halves. Can someone clarify this a bit. Thanks a lot. |
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CoffeeBeans New user Germany 39 Posts |
When I was talking about the open shuffle I meant gripping by the outer ends.
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MarcoLostSomething Regular user 144 Posts |
Well Arnold, to be honest I don't see too many people shuffling with the 2CF grip, as I said I use it because it's more pleasant to me, and I also feel comfortable enough. Don't know about the rest, maybe it's true they use it because Forte use it.
After some time it becomes habit, as many things |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
I suggest we open a new thread guys. Gimme a few minutes.
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SimonCard Special user 601 Posts |
Hi Marco:
I hope you don't mind if I post my drill video in your thread. I don't think opening another thread is necessary. Thanks a lot. I started practicing after watching AMcD's drill demo. It is really a good drill to practice. I still can't feel how many cards I'm holding back so I'm visually estimating for every shuffle. I think maybe after a year of practicing I will start to learn to shuffle without looking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZJLqgDkpGY I'd really appreciate if I can get some guidance. Thanks a lot everyone. |
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MarcoLostSomething Regular user 144 Posts |
It's fine, we can post here some more practice drills to keep the section clean.
Regarding to the video, it looks good to me, but remember I'm definitely no expert One thing I noted is that I can "feel" how many cards I'm holding (up to 6 cards), but I pause to check if I'm right, before dropping them. I don't know if it's correct, or I should never check in practice and always give it a shot by feel. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Very nice and I like the idea of drills, thanks.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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CJTAN92 New user Malaysia 7 Posts |
Hi guys, here is my riffle stacking drill video,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9QxGwHUa-Y I would like to know what do you think about it, hope can get some advise.Thanks! |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
The other day I was playing Gin Rummy with someone who I have won a great deal of money from. We broke open a new deck and prior to starting the game I said to him, "Watch this." I then showed him my riffle stacking drill and asked, "How do you like that. Pretty neat, huh?"
He gave me a dirty look and said to me, "Don't ever call me for a Gin game again," and walked out the door in a huff. I thought this drill would impress him with my skill and prowess but instead he is now very angry at me and won't play cards with me anymore. . I don't get it. Did I do something wrong? |
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Peterson Regular user 159 Posts |
Cag, did you show him your tattoos of cards/or cheating related?
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
The mind’s reel of midnight movies never ceases to amaze.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
I am also amazed at how easily some people are amazed, especially those that have supposedly progressed beyond the toddler stage.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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