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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » The Undetectible Zarrow Shuffle (19 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Cagliostro
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Quote:
On Feb 8, 2017, necro555 wrote:

Steve (Forte) did proceed to demo some Zarrow shuffles and stated that one of the best Zarrow Shuffles he's seen was where the cards were shuffled from the long side of the deck. Not sure how common riffle shuffling cards from the long side of the deck is in a card came.


It is rare to see cards shuffled that way. That Zarrow variation shuffle performed by Forte was derived from a breakout shuffle that is deceptive and has great cover. Magicians have a name for that shuffle (I don’t recall what it is but first read about it in a magic book many years ago), but I prefer using it as a breakout shuffle rather than a Zarrow.

Professional breakout shuffles are superior to the Zarrow in my opinion and are used at the gaming tables.

The big disadvantage to that particular shuffle is people rarely shuffle that way.
AMcD
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@necro555

It certainly isn't common, but I have seen it done many times. At first, I didn't understand why, sometimes, I ran across guys shuffling that way... and it took me some time to get it! Then... Smile
Artie Fufkin
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Perhaps we must agree to disagree.

I've seen private video of near imperceptible Zarrow shuffles.

Of course, if you're using Ricky Jay as your example ... you're absolutely correct. He's a guy that perpetrates one of the crummiest Zarrow shuffles around.
tommy
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Perfection isn't static.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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necro555
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Good to know Smile

I presume the Zarrow would need a lot of cover to fly by, so the shuffles from the long end of the deck makes sense in that way. But does that start to become more of a breakout shuffle? I'll have to do some more research into that shuffle.

I bought Steve Reynold's Z DVD a while back, as Jason England mentioned in a lecture that Reynolds was one of three people who have the best Zarrows he's seen; After watching the DVD, I did feel the Reynolds Zarrow looked a bit robotic. Maybe it's just me. Cagliostro, Artie Fufkin and AMcD, what are your thoughts on that Zarrow?
tommy
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Bold moves we know work perfectly at the right moment. Perfection isn't static. Buy when there ts blood in the street.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Cagliostro
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Quote:
On Feb 8, 2017, necro555 wrote:
Good to know Smile

I presume the Zarrow would need a lot of cover to fly by, so the shuffles from the long end of the deck makes sense in that way. But does that start to become more of a breakout shuffle? I'll have to do some more research into that shuffle.


I now recall this shuffle was called the "V" shuffle because shuffling the cards was not done end to end as such but actually the cards were shuffled by the ends with the packets in the "V" angle position.

It originally was a breakout shuffle but later utilized as a Zarrow type shuffle with this grip.

The Zarrow cover is better with this method but I still preferred the breakout method as it was faster, had better cover and was more utilitarian.
tommy
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We were curious to know if our casino croupiers were aware of the Z. The funny thing about learning how something works is that it changes us for ever. The Z is obvious to those who know it and after performing a couple of card tricks it was clear to us the croups were not.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Dannydoyle
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If you do not have an opaque cloth available I have an alternative.

It is a move I developed called "The Venetian Blind". It is necessary to perfect this move. (It is alternatively called the Moe Howard.)

(For those unfamiliar with the move look up the joke "Do you know how to make a Venetian blind?" All will be clarified.)

Once you learn the mechanics of that move the undetectable Zarrow falls right into place.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
SDR
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Gary Plants' version is worth investigating if you don't like the original. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqNRcYumAFo
tommy
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There is really no such thing as the original; as Zarrow said, fit it to your way of shuffling.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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AMcD
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Gary Plant's version is poor. I like the "Comments are disabled for this video", easy to understand why lol.

From the angle he chose for shooting the video it looks Okay (even if the speed is too slow for a shuffle), but if the camera was a few degrees down... it would be another story in terms of deceptiveness.

Let's give Gary a big credit for the booklet he wrote a few years ago about the Z though. Excellent booklet.
necro555
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Quote:
On Feb 13, 2017, tommy wrote:
There is really no such thing as the original; as Zarrow said, fit it to your way of shuffling.


It was originally published with a specific technique in the New Phoenix. So maybe there's no original zarrow, but there is an original publication of the technique.

As with most shuffles, you can personalize it and call it something like the Shank Shuffle Smile
tommy
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As soon I learned it I tried to make it look more like a professional game shuffle, a more closed shuffle. I automatically do so with anything actually. In the professional game things not look deceptive but also fit the usual procedures. I did bot succeed to do it with Zarrow. I think it better applied to an amateur game and cool for magic. Let us put it this way, I would not advise my son to it in the professional game. Mind you in steer game one might do things that would not fly ordinarily.

I am not a pro cheat or player or magician but have done a bit and run a professional game.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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AMcD
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Drop it tommy, Magicians only fools themselves with the Z. If they are too stupid for being objective, what can we do?
Dannydoyle
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It is one of those shuffles that just attracts the eye. Strange movements for no reason. Even for purposes of a magic trick in which you don't want to seem as if you are doing anything it seems poorly suited.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Cagliostro
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I always wondered why Vernon promoted the Zarrow shuffle or praised it to some degree. Probably because Zarrow was a nice old guy and maybe he wanted to help him out. However, I saw a video of Zarrow doing the shuffle, the original shuffle as developed by him, and I thought it was terrible. Maybe doing one shuffle during a magic trick would be okay.

I saw Bill Malone do it one time in a card trick. He shuffled the cards and then pushed the deck well forward as he was making the square up maneuver to conceal what was happening, all the time chattering in his rapid fire style. In that context, it seemed passable.

Also, it has been used in some casino plays years ago before they had the cameras installed. From the sky looking down it could not be detected. Since all the players at the table were in on the play, the dealer did not have to fool them with the shuffle. The advantage was one could teach almost any dealer to do the shuffle under those conditions in a relatively short period of time. However, the sky shuffle would have done the same job more simply and just as effectively. However, the best casino plays used some form of push-thru or strip out shuffles, even a breakout shuffle is better than the Zarrow in that context.

It can be done better by covering the cards with the fingers to obscure the deck more, but still it is awkward under fire. The initial setup before each shuffle is cumbersome and the top cards shifted and covering on the square up leaves a lot to be desired.

However, keep in mind that regardless of the promotional advertising to the contrary stating that it is used at the gaming tables, or coveted by professional gamblers, the Zarrow was developed for magicians and for use in a magic trick context. I have never met a professional gambler who used it at the gaming table, probably because those that may have tried did not live very long. Smile

As I said in the original post on this thread, the only really deceptive Zarrow requires one to blindfold the deck with a heavy opaque cloth. I still amaze myself with the brilliance of that concept.

(Hey, when you are that clever, modesty is out of place.) Smile
tommy
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The magician Guy Hollingsworth fooled me with it by riffling the cards together and then spreading then before squaring them up and doing it. The spread sort of gave me a mental block. It was a strange sort of misdirection. I can’t recall exactly what I was thinking but I think the spread convinced me they were riffled fairly. It did not dawn on me for while what he had done.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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necro555
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Cagliostro, how exaggerated would you say the influence of the Zarrow Shuffle on the gambling table has been?
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On Feb 15, 2017, necro555 wrote:

Cagliostro, how exaggerated would you say the influence of the Zarrow Shuffle on the gambling table has been?


Greatly exaggerated, mostly by those who are demonstrating the move as it adds credibility to what they are doing, selling books and videos on the subject or simply repeating what they have been told by others. I am not saying these people are insincere in their beliefs, but they have no real-time factual experience to support that claim.

I am not saying the Zarrow has never been used in a gambling situation, indeed I recount an example above, but it is little used and I have never seen it applied in any tough games. Since many on this board give great credence to Steve Forte, I believe he stated the shuffle was rarely used in gaming situations.
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