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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » The Undetectible Zarrow Shuffle (19 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Cagliostro
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Quote:
On Mar 16, 2017, cbharrelson wrote:

I am never fooled by a push thru no matter how skillful.


Well then, you are one up on me. I have seen push-through shuffles that mimic a fair shuffle exactly where it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to distinguish between the fair and the push-through. Suspecting is one thing but actually distinguishing between the two is another.

Personally I would say there is no comparison whatsoever between a expertly performed push-through and a Zarrow. The push-through is the adult in the room and the Zarrow is the baby in diapers.
tommy
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I have actually spotted push-through shuffles at twenty paces.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On Mar 18, 2017, tommy wrote:

I have actually spotted push-through shuffles at twenty paces.


Yes, but you are the sharpest person on this BB. Your experience, knowledge, intelligence and ability are second to none plus you have a big advantage over the rest of us. You carry a worn out copy of Erdnase in your back pocket at all times so you have a handy reference to get the definitive answers to all questions and situations.

Plus...you probably have an undetectable Zarrow shuffle that you have used in big games against very astute opponents.

So...be gracious and give us lesser mortals a break. Smile
tommy
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I am not kidding.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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AMcD
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I'm with Cag, Push-Thrus (PS) can be very deceptive. I would even say that they can be hard to spot.

In fact, I'm yet to see a Z as deceptive as a PS.
tommy
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I did not say that I could. I said that I did. Now if you had any brains at all then you know there is a difference between saying one thing and the other.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
AMcD
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Oh, I get it now. You're Madison posting here under cover right? Gotcha!!
tommy
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Oh no, you wouldn’t get it unless I put on youtube for you.

Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
cbharrelson
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Fellows I was asked what kind of games I have played in and the stakes. I have played in barber shop closed on Sunday road games across west Texas regular pro card games in apartments home games across west Texas card games at slaughter houses played at Las Vegas stakes were 2-5 5-10 pot limit. Games were Texas holder high Texas high low Holden 5 card draw high 6 card draw high low 7 stud high and high low. As a pro I play the players I will soon know if someone is expert enough to know if I am stacking the deck I have used a strip out a zarrow stacked a deck shifted the cut and copped chips. I am 69 years old and have never been caught I am very very careful erdnase gave the best advice any false shuffle must be covered like the pass. A zarrow to be in detectable must be covered however with proper misdirection even an open zarrow can be done without people realizing. Would Steve forte know when I do a zarrow? Would I know when Steve forte does a push thru? Yes!, would I pick a game with Steve forte sitting? No!, when I sit in front of a mirror and do my zarrow I can not spot any tells. I have worked on a zarrow for a long time. I am good at reading players and games.
cbharrelson
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By the way cag you probably have a much better zarrow than most because you understand why erdnase used a covered shuffle for a top stock. Oh I used tricks at one time to make money but I was also a very good poker player on the square. As for money my partner and I once played with a few of the buyers at bell helicopter in Fort Worth and won thousands. However I do not gamble any more I lost a wife respect from my kids I would play starting at 6 pm on Friday night and quit at 12 pm on Sunday night. I do sleights now just to see if I can improve the techniques. Cag it is obvious you have played many games for money and you do know the principals that make a good card hustler.. Me I am a retired poker hustler and card cheat.
tommy
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But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
cbharrelson
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Cag also the push through shuffle is an honest shuffle it is not he cut that is false and it is not he cut that is the tell the shuffle itself is perfect that is why it was favored by gamblers but the cut has always been the weakness with the strip out shuffles a good zarrow is just as deceptive as the push through. Card men that have worked on their. Strip out for many years can do it very well I myself have used a strip out in a money game also a zarrow. To fool anyone you must be able to do it well the problem with card men is they feel like they can do a good push through and they try to do the zarrow like herb zarrow instead of like Gary plants. Which do you think had a better zarrow herb or Gary if you had to use it in a game. The zarrow is like the pass it must be covered. And it must be natural if it is it is more deceptive than the push through not the shuffle itself it is the strip out that is weak.
MarcoLostSomething
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The Z is not my best shuffle, I practised it during the years because it has tons of applications in magic, but I can see every little tell of my shuffle no matter how much I try to do my best.
Pheraphs the mechanics are more apparent to those who "know" the move, but as previously stated I do believe that a well performed push through beats a well performed Zarrow in terms of blind false shuffle for table situations.

I am ignorant about the terminology and I have to ask: what's a breakout shuffle? I might know it with a non-english term or not know it all.

PS: I have recorded a quick demo of my Z but I haven't claimed to be The Best, so I will post it just to give my take on that (it's Sunday after all): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjESfO87yCM&spfreload=10
cbharrelson
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Marco your zarrow is smooth normal tells are not there weakness is not covered enough
tommy
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Croupiers don’t shuffle in that open way. That is no good for the professional game. I really don’t know why magicians do a Z like that when they don’t shuffle that way normally.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
cbharrelson
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Marco you do a herb zarrow shuffle your normal shuffle is an open type shuffle look at the two types of shuffles in erdnase even a top stock control shuffle can be spotted in an open shuffle much less a zarrow.an open zarrow will never be as deceptive as a push through. If you want to do an open false shuffle stick with the pus through
cbharrelson
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Tommy magicians demonstrate the push through and the do a card trick that uses the push through obviously they won't fool other magicians.
cbharrelson
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Richard turner does a pull out that is more deceptive than his push through.. So does Steve forte.
cbharrelson
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Steve forte has the same issue as you his normal shuffle is a more open type shuffle he has done a good job on the zarrow by changing his finger position to cover the shuffle however you can tell it is two different shuffles the zarrow conflicts with his normal style of shuffling.he does an excellent job of laying the cards in and the unweaving.
cbharrelson
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By the way Richard turner Gary plants and Doyle Brunson are all Texas boys!
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