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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
There is really no such thing as the original; as Zarrow said, fit it to your way of shuffling.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Gary Plant's version is poor. I like the "Comments are disabled for this video", easy to understand why lol.
From the angle he chose for shooting the video it looks Okay (even if the speed is too slow for a shuffle), but if the camera was a few degrees down... it would be another story in terms of deceptiveness. Let's give Gary a big credit for the booklet he wrote a few years ago about the Z though. Excellent booklet. |
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necro555 Veteran user 335 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 13, 2017, tommy wrote: It was originally published with a specific technique in the New Phoenix. So maybe there's no original zarrow, but there is an original publication of the technique. As with most shuffles, you can personalize it and call it something like the Shank Shuffle |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
As soon I learned it I tried to make it look more like a professional game shuffle, a more closed shuffle. I automatically do so with anything actually. In the professional game things not look deceptive but also fit the usual procedures. I did bot succeed to do it with Zarrow. I think it better applied to an amateur game and cool for magic. Let us put it this way, I would not advise my son to it in the professional game. Mind you in steer game one might do things that would not fly ordinarily.
I am not a pro cheat or player or magician but have done a bit and run a professional game.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Drop it tommy, Magicians only fools themselves with the Z. If they are too stupid for being objective, what can we do?
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
It is one of those shuffles that just attracts the eye. Strange movements for no reason. Even for purposes of a magic trick in which you don't want to seem as if you are doing anything it seems poorly suited.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
I always wondered why Vernon promoted the Zarrow shuffle or praised it to some degree. Probably because Zarrow was a nice old guy and maybe he wanted to help him out. However, I saw a video of Zarrow doing the shuffle, the original shuffle as developed by him, and I thought it was terrible. Maybe doing one shuffle during a magic trick would be okay.
I saw Bill Malone do it one time in a card trick. He shuffled the cards and then pushed the deck well forward as he was making the square up maneuver to conceal what was happening, all the time chattering in his rapid fire style. In that context, it seemed passable. Also, it has been used in some casino plays years ago before they had the cameras installed. From the sky looking down it could not be detected. Since all the players at the table were in on the play, the dealer did not have to fool them with the shuffle. The advantage was one could teach almost any dealer to do the shuffle under those conditions in a relatively short period of time. However, the sky shuffle would have done the same job more simply and just as effectively. However, the best casino plays used some form of push-thru or strip out shuffles, even a breakout shuffle is better than the Zarrow in that context. It can be done better by covering the cards with the fingers to obscure the deck more, but still it is awkward under fire. The initial setup before each shuffle is cumbersome and the top cards shifted and covering on the square up leaves a lot to be desired. However, keep in mind that regardless of the promotional advertising to the contrary stating that it is used at the gaming tables, or coveted by professional gamblers, the Zarrow was developed for magicians and for use in a magic trick context. I have never met a professional gambler who used it at the gaming table, probably because those that may have tried did not live very long. As I said in the original post on this thread, the only really deceptive Zarrow requires one to blindfold the deck with a heavy opaque cloth. I still amaze myself with the brilliance of that concept. (Hey, when you are that clever, modesty is out of place.) |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
The magician Guy Hollingsworth fooled me with it by riffling the cards together and then spreading then before squaring them up and doing it. The spread sort of gave me a mental block. It was a strange sort of misdirection. I can’t recall exactly what I was thinking but I think the spread convinced me they were riffled fairly. It did not dawn on me for while what he had done.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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necro555 Veteran user 335 Posts |
Cagliostro, how exaggerated would you say the influence of the Zarrow Shuffle on the gambling table has been?
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 15, 2017, necro555 wrote: Greatly exaggerated, mostly by those who are demonstrating the move as it adds credibility to what they are doing, selling books and videos on the subject or simply repeating what they have been told by others. I am not saying these people are insincere in their beliefs, but they have no real-time factual experience to support that claim. I am not saying the Zarrow has never been used in a gambling situation, indeed I recount an example above, but it is little used and I have never seen it applied in any tough games. Since many on this board give great credence to Steve Forte, I believe he stated the shuffle was rarely used in gaming situations. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Magicians are actors, they playing a part; they create a backstory for their fictional creators. The magicians that do card magic with gambling thyme often will invent a backstory to fit the bill. They will talk about how they hung out with gamblers etcetera but it only fiction. It is only for the public who they are there amuse. They are all professional utter liars and don’t ever believe anything they ever say, especially Pop Haydn.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
That is a terrible thing to say!
I've never told but one lie in my entire life, tommy... and I only tell that one when I'm pressed and don't have time to think. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
One day there will be a portrait of Pop hanging in the Louvre next to the Mona Lisa called “The Sincerity of the Magician”.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Artie Fufkin Special user 853 Posts |
One day Pop Haydn will get the credit he deserves for the incredible amount of work he and SFS did documenting the Top and Ball, Chain, and Three Card Monte.
There are lots of folks that are pretenders to the crown hanging around these days, but School For Scoundrels and Pop (as Whit) did the original work (along with Anton) in documenting these three classic short cons in a scholarly fashion. I have all the written work, and DVD's that SFS released on the three short cons noted above, and refer to them often. And if that wasn't enough, it was Pop and SFS that sat down with Doc Jon and got on video the real stories, and the actual methods used by "legitimate" hustlers to separate the rube from his money. The Doc Jon DVD is absolutely priceless. Anyway, thanks for all you've contributed to the knowledge bank Pop, it's a massive amount of quality information that will undoubtedly more than stand the test of time. |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
I will never thank Pop enough for setting up a live chat with Doc Jon, a few years ago. I had to stay awake for the whole night, but it was great!
Thanks Pop! |
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dapo24 New user 57 Posts |
While I agree it is visually inferior to the push-through I think it still has an application. And that's in the RRSRC. You can do the cut one handed. But I don't think it could withstand a lot of scrutiny - unless done very well. Maybe just preserving the bottom ~15 cards with the concept of the Zarrow? Jason England does it pretty well and I'm currently trying to play around with it. Trying to make RRSRC sequence with the zarrow as the last shuffle (first two push-through with Richard Turner's "crocodile shuffle") and making the actions somewhat uniform. I'll see what can I come up with :V
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cbharrelson Regular user 167 Posts |
My zarrow after a lot of practice is natural and covered. Principals learned from Gary plants watching excellent crud men performing listening to sound advice like from cag about the principals taught about false shuffling i.e. Top stock. I only use a zarrow shuffle I never shuffle on the square. I am never fooled by a push thru no matter how skillfull. I have used a zarrow in real time games.best performers I have seen is 1 Gary plants 2 Steve forte 3 Charlie Miller all the rest follow herb zarrow said lead. I have not seen all zarrow so but I do know mine and I have compared to other card men and I do use mirrors and professional critics to check the mechanics.
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Geez! Can you show us please? By the way, don't forget the aim of this place: G-A-M-B-L-I-N-G. What I mean by that is that most of the "good" Z I have seen could not fit. Far from it. They were so slow, for instance, that we could play almost a round of Poker before the guy has finished a single Z (I'm hardly exaggerating). And don't forget to use a good angle of vision; at the table, people are at a certain distance from the shuffler and you generally have one player on your right and one on your left (not mentioning people standing up behind you, watching the game).
Don't worry, critics will be fair and honest. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
“Gambling” covers an awful lot of different players, games and circumstances.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Yes. But an undetectable Zarrow covers an awful lot of bullcrap as well.
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