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Vlad_77 Inner circle The Netherlands 5829 Posts |
Let them shuffle and then do a routine which allows the spectator to do all of the "handling." A routine that immediately comes to mind is Gemini Twins in Karl Fulves' Self-Working Card Tricks series. It's really a great routine and many magicians have created stunning variations of it. But, that said, the routine is STRONG and even stronger in situations in which the speccy shuffles and then YOU make it even harder on your self by asking the erstwhile shuffler to handle the cards.
May I also suggest an excellent must have booklet for every card magicians library? Outs, Precautions,and Challenges by Charles Hopkins is a great booklet. It cover virtually all contingencies. EDIT: I am half-awake and I see that Dave Grippenwaldt wrote a post about the Hopkins booklet. So, my post is really a reminder of his. |
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pabloinus Inner circle 1682 Posts |
Maybe an ID on the side, so if you missed the location or value of the card after the shuffling , you can ask the spectator what the cards was and pull it from the ID, as one time event
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arthur stead Inner circle When I played soccer, I hit 1777 Posts |
While I hate those kinds of interruptions (because it interrupts the flow), I welcome letting them shuffle. Gives me an opportunity to REALLY blow them away with a couple of effects perfectly suited for those situations.
One is OOTW. Another is a selected card location which ends up in half of the deck which they've been holding onto since the beginning of the trick. I also do a prediction effect with a shuffled deck, which secretly and unobtrusively stacks the Aces on top. Then I can go straight into Spectator Cuts The Aces or any other Ace production effect. |
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lord_wallmotto Loyal user 291 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 13, 2017, terryisaacs wrote: Or maybe you just perform it well enough? Done right, it should look just like you spread through the cards and they can have any card they want. As soon as they touched a card I usually just hand them the cards and ask them to look at it in a way so I can't see the card. However, performing several tricks in a row using the same principle is almost never a good idea. |
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January Veteran user 390 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 22, 2017, arthur stead wrote: This. I always welcome the shuffle. |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
There are lots of tricks you can do where the spectator can shuffle, however, this really points to a probable weakness in your presence.
You must work on making sure you're character is strong enough so that never happens. It's possible that's not the case but when I think about when those things happend to me, it was all back when I was a beginner.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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January Veteran user 390 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 22, 2017, TheAmbitiousCard wrote: True--I think when someone is clearly doing card magic professionally, I'm less hesitant to ask "Can I shuffle?" simply because I don't want to mess him up, because I understand it's his job. That said, even as a layperson, I always suspected anything where the spectator didn't shuffle as the cards being in a certain order. So I don't think that spectators not asking more experienced performers if they can shuffle is necessarily because the performer is so confident that they dissolve that weakness in a card effect, but rather just because people tend to act more polite. So it's still not a bad idea to have some effects where spectator's can shuffle IMO. I think sometimes we can assume spectators not asking about something means they're fooled, when in reality, they may just be acting polite. |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
If a spectator thinks the cards have not been shuffled, that sounds like a performer mistake.
my favorite spectator cuts the aces trick to perform (thanks john bannon) come right after the spectator shuffles the deck. no one should suspect a stacked deck. if that's the point you were making, good point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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January Veteran user 390 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 23, 2017, TheAmbitiousCard wrote: If you think no one would ever suspect a stacked deck, that would seem to assume some fairly dumb spectators. Yes, most won't suspect it, but the smarter ones probably will. Even as a layperson years ago, who had never read a single text on card magic, I immediately deduced that's what David Blaine used on several card effects. Is that because Blaine is a terrible magician? No. It's just because I wasn't stupid, and anyone can deduce that if one knows the order of the cards in a deck, one can know where cards are. That's the reason shuffling even exists--so people can't cheat at cards by knowing the order of the cards. And I don't think that a spectator does not assume that they HAVEN'T been shuffled, but something is more impressive to them if they shuffle the cards or handle them themselves. If it's not, then why do magicians obsess about the totally hands-off holy grail ACAAN? Because it's more impressive. If it's always a performer mistake to let the specs shuffle, then why do we ever let them shuffle? Are we terrible at what we do? No. We let them shuffle because we know any trick is more impressive when the spec says, "OMG--I even shuffled them myself." EDIT: I agree that preventing people from asking to shuffle is an issue of spectator management, and an experienced magician should know how to handle that. But the issue of whether or not a spectator "thinks" the cards have been shuffled or not is a different one. Even before I knew a single card trick, I was smart enough to deduce things like false shuffles and stacked decks, so the thing that got me into card magic was seeing an impromptu OOTW where the spectator shuffled the deck. It was the first time I'd ever been really fried by seeing card trick. But of course we can't fool all the people all the time. |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
It's not a performer mistake to let a spectator shuffle (as I mentioned above). I have spectators shuffle all the time.
But YOU should be in control of that decision. The performer mistake is when you're not in control. To wit: If spectators are often blurting out... "hey, wait, let me shuffle", the magician should consider what it is they are doing(or not doing) to create the mistrust. Notice I wrote "often". This can happen to anyone from time to time. But if it's happening regularly, you've got issues to resolve!
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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January Veteran user 390 Posts |
Quote:
It's not a performer mistake to let a spectator shuffle (as I mentioned above). I have spectators shuffle all the time. Ok, now I understand. Yes, I totally agree with you on that. Also, from this poster's other post--about what to do if someone says, "Oh, I know tricks too, let me try one,"--it sounds like he doesn't feel very in control of his performances. |
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danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts |
I once had a discussion with Pop Haydn about his use of the Chicago Surprise as his opener. I said I thought the opener should be "magic now!," and that the Chicago Surprise was a lot of work and took a long time for an opener. He said, "There's some validity to that thought, but I start with something that tells the troublemakers in the audience, 'Don't **** with me!'" The Chicago Surprise has a number of unexpected moments that tells the audience that this isn't their uncle's card trick. Perhaps you need to start with something that shuts them up before they have a chance to challenge you. Pop sells that trick for ten bucks, if you're interested in it. It's an amazing routine. Here's a link to a YouTube video of it.
https://youtu.be/v7zDyQqVUKc Another thing Pop says, which is demonstrated in that video, is that he proves to them that it's not a stack or a force because he gives them a chance to change their mind. He almost badgers them to change it, daring them to do it, as many times as they want. I've heard him say, "I don't want you to come back whining later on that I didn't let you take the card you wanted." He does this to remove all thought that he could possibly have forced a card on them (even though he has). He also says that he enjoys when people challenge him, because that's when he really gets to mess with their heads. Granted you're no Pop Haydn at this point in your learning, but the principles and mindset remain the same. Pop does three things with his very first trick: 1. he shuts them up before they open their mouths, 2. he gives them so many provers that they can't even conceive that they don't have a free choice, and 3. he uses challenges to make the magic even stronger. You might start thinking along those lines.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
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magicstudent8416 Regular user 172 Posts |
Oh that was an impressive trick by the good sir Haydn, I see what you mean .
I see his rationale when thinking in terms of conditioning. I guess it is like you hear about army officers making a strong impression out the gate on their troops to set the precedent or something like that. |
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
An old lady bought a parrot and set it in a big iron cage in her parlor. She sat down to read a book, but the parrot started screaming cuss words like a sailor. He said the worst and most offensive things you could possibly imagine. He was a Shakespeare of vulgarity and blasphemy.
"Stop talking like that in front of me! We don't use that language in this house!" "Screw you, ya' old b****!" She hauled the bird out of the cage, marched him into the kitchen, and tossed him into the freezer. She waited a few minutes, and then pulled him back out, all shivering and terrified and wide-eyed. "You ever going to use that kind of language here again?" "No, ma'am. Promise," the bird gasped meekly. She put him back in the cage and slammed the cage door. The old lady sat back down and picked up her book, and from behind her she heard, "Excuse, me? Ma'am? Could I ask you a question?" "What is it?" "Whatever did that chicken say?" ***** I think it is good to get a relationship off with a certain firm understanding. It is good to show the loud mouths the chicken early on. I would also say that The Chicago Surprise is long for an opener, it has magic happening right from the beginning. It also gives people a chance to fight with you in several ways about shuffling, changing their minds, and so on. By the time the effect ends, you shouldn't have those problems again during your act. |
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DaveGripenwaldt Elite user 487 Posts |
If you like the glimpse-the-selection-so-you-can-find-it-if-they-shuffle approach, a simple ruse is to keep a joker in the deck. So after the glimpse/loss, you can go through the deck under the guise of "making sure there are no jokers in it". Pull out the joker in such a way as to leave the selection on top and move on.
And, of course, you don't need a spectator to want to shuffle to need an out - you can just plain lose track of a card by mistake in the course of a trick...so glimpsing, nicking or crimping selections can be a good habit to get into as a matter of course. |
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Mr Salk Special user Tied to 568 Posts |
I let specs shuffle before the tricks start. Nobody asks to shuffle again.
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rawdawg Special user Southern California 686 Posts |
Would you still let them shuffle if their hands were obviously greasy from handling food, wet from holding drinks or just plain dirty?
Are you guys okay with a spectator severely crimping cards because they wanted to show off that they could do an in the hands riffle shuffle with a bridge? FYI, I'm in the camp of letting them shuffle with some direction.
One time, when I was young, I botched a sleight so bad, Vernon, Marlo & Miller rolled over in their graves. But I didn't see Elmsley, probably because he was behind the others.
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Ben Blau Inner circle 1475 Posts |
Diffuse the urge in the first place. Telegraph authority. You’re in charge. Or, do tricks that allow for them to shuffle. When I write tricks, I consider whether something is likely to make the participant want to shuffle (which is rare for a variety of reasons), and address the issue in the design of the routine. Often before starting a set of material, I ask them if they know how to shuffle, hand them the deck and say, “Here - you might as well get it out of your system now.” Whether or not I do this depends on what my first trick is. If my first trick contains a setup, I often choose subsequent tricks that allow spectator shuffling.
Ben Blau
http://www.benblaumentalism.com |
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Aaron Smith Magic Inner circle Portland, OR 1447 Posts |
Glimpse, then let them mix. Or, like previously mentioned, I carry an ID all the time. It's a great out if necessary. That and Kenton Knepper's off by one.
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sevenup Regular user South Carolina 179 Posts |
I'm a little slow but finally got the chicken joke after another read through. Maybe a bag with a realistic decapitated head would work.
I've had things go south quick when attempting to do routines that were unstructured, like using a S&Soda to push a coin through the table visibly. The kid just grabbed for the half dollar on the table and threw it across the room trying to break it open. No one else out of the 10 person crowd had a clue including the lady who had her hand under the table to catch the coin, but I should have stuck to more of a standard routine that has been proven time and time again. For card tricks, I always have KK in my wallet as a final out if the regular outs don't go so well. Pop's routines are very well structured and executed so add on his natural charm and likability and it's hard to imagine anyone trying to heckle him. I'll never forget seeing KOZAK live do his comedy club act and how he opened with a challenge to all would be hecklers in the crowd. I don't remember the exact words but I remember him daring anyone to mess with him right up front. I really wish I could have seen what he would have done if someone did cause trouble because he seemed like he had a lot of ammunition to unload on the challenger. Not one soul bothered him all night.
Pick a card, any card at all. Just don't pick a RED spade.
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