So far I have found guys really annoying when doing magic. They seem to ALWAYS want to try and take over and 'control' things some how.

I actually would not look to perform to them any more and it only happened last night because a group of guys saw I had a pack of cards in my hands and came up and asked me about them so I thought I'd take it as an opportunity to practice a trick because, at the moment, practice is practice.

I did a quick card force and showed the card in my credit card book and as soon as the trick was done another guy of the group says he knows magic and said 'can I try'. I just said 'no' and quickly ran away and downstairs.

Also soon before another guy had whipped out their phone and I see a flashlight blaring in my face filming me. I hate this culture now how everyone is a voyeur and they think it is 'normal' to film you without asking your permission like you are just some object. I had finished the trick by then so I turned away from the camera.

In future I am going to hide my cards better and only perform to majority girl groups or all girl groups as they are happy to just stand and enjoy the show; I imagine due to the inherent passive nature of women in general. There are exceptions of course but generally I think so. At the same time there are plenty of guys around so what to do if they try this 'taking over' schtick?

Its interesting because this phenomena isn't isolated to me as a newbie. I was doing my shopping one day and noticed a street performer doing magic and some sullen looking guy came up to him trying to 'show off' and the sullen guy somhow convinces the performer to show him a trick like 'here is how its REALLY done'. The street performer was obviously annoyed by this but reluctantly went along. After the guy had finished he walked off triumphantly like 'that showed him!' whereas it was clear to me and the performer it was very try hard and pathetic, and yet these guys still try these things.

How to deal?

Yeah I hate that. It really burns me when I reluctantly turn over my cards and watch someone do really simple trick their grandad taught them - and those watching are just as impressed by that as your knucklebusting multi-phased sandwhich routine!

I usually just make sure that my magic is so good and so powerful that nobody will want to perform after me...who would like to sing after Celine Dion.

Well I am only beggining so that is not an option so what to do in the meantime? And I think guys (especially drunk ones) would not care about that so much they just want to derail you and if they do they feel like their work is done.

I had a really good gig last Saturday (wonderful extended Family audience, possibly Pakistani?) One of the guys wanted to show a card trick and I just handed him the cards. He did a surprisingly good job of a simple trick. I applauded and the Family joined in. I also laugh if someone does a good quip at a show. Why not? If I am doing my job right, people are feeling good and want to be a part of it. There was also another Magician there who had enough experience not to jump in and perform (and I appreciated that too).

I wouldn't let someone take over my gig but being confident enough to allow someone else the lime light for a while and pleasantly applaud them is part of looking powerful enough to be considered a Magician.
I do know that, being a Woman, most Guys won't be too pushy in a certain way but when I run into certain types, they are more pushy about showing off because they think they can overpower me. The I say, "WOW, you are good, It's a pity you couldn't get the Gig!". I laugh and take back my cards. If there is push back I'll say "I'll leave you to entertain here." and I walk away. This is very rare and usually happens when drinking or a well known bore is involved. Usually there is a mortified Wife and Friends who are glad I don't force the issue.
There are other people to perform for and maybe I'll see some of the unfortunate people in that group again later in the party in a more positive setting.

-Mary Mowder

That should tell you something you've missed, not burn you.
It's the effect and presentation, not the method that's important.
I've attended a lot of lectures from a lot of "names" in the business and the one thing that keeps recurring, especially from the guys with decades under their belt is how much complexity they've let go of.
There's something to be said for mastering difficult sleights from an accomplishment/personal satisfaction perspective, but that is nothing your audience should ever be aware of.

I think it's different when you perform than just doing a trick for someone. Youre not in performance mode and it just doesn't come across right. Since you are new to this, get 4 or 5 good ones down to the extent that you are bored practicing them. Then you can do them anytime. And, like Mary said, be confident.

Because a group of gits made your evening a little uncomfortable you are going to cease performing for males? Please tell me that you're joking. I realize you are new to performing and I admire the way you accepted advice from others in the community in your previous thread. Let's think this issue through.

1. You said "no" and quickly ran away. As many others and I stated in the previous thread, you really need to develop confidence in YOU. I know it isn't easy for some people to find that confidence. It takes both a lot of self reflection AND the stones to take chances. I am not berating you but I do need to say this: Thus far you have done little in the way of confidence because you are afraid. It's a catch 22 situation. Your fear paralyses you and you run away. To attain confidence you have to take chances but if you take chances and it ends up not so nice, you retreat and you ride that spiral of fear. You must strive harder to break free of fear.

2. What would have been so bad about letting the guy do a card trick? You stated they came up to you. Maybe the guy liked what you did and just wanted to show you his appreciation by performing something. But let's pretend that this guy has been involved in the art for longer than you. Again, what is the worst that could have happened? Perhaps the guy would have been a jerk and try to show you up. So what? Chances are you will probably never see him again. Conversely if he just wanted to show you as a magician a trick, you could have made a n acquaintance who liked the magic you showed him and he might just have spread the word about you. And IF the guy IS better than you and ALWAYS remember that there is ALWAYS someone "better," that fact should not deter you from continuing your study and it certainly should not stop you from performing or limiting your performance for one gender only.

3.The filming thing is unfortunately a product of our culture and neither you nor I are "big enough" - as in well known - to ask people not to film you. It sucks but it is what it is and if you want to be a performer you will have to deal with a lot of situations that you find uncomfortable. Having said that, the more confidence you gain, you will encounter less of these situations.

4. Do mot underestimate women spectators. Generally they do seem to be more "polite" but you may well be mistaking that politeness on the fact that they do not wish to make you feel badly about yourself. You have had ONE instance with a guy and that made you feel so very uncomfortable that you will no longer perform for males? What would happen if some night you encountered a woman who was giving you a hard time? Would you then declare that you will only perform for hamsters? (N.B.: Hamsters are notoriously difficult spectators )

I know it may seem that I am being harsh but I am not. I am trying to get you to bring this recent situation into perspective. Magic is a performing art and like all other performing arts it's tough. In fact I would argue that magic is the only performing art in which the dynamics of the interplay between performer and audience is adversarial. You are trying to fool them and they are trying to catch you. But if you have studied and practiced and rehearsed - rehearsal and practice are NOT the same - then you will have learned a valuable set of tools that prepare you for tough situations.

Think about magicians like Doc Eason, J.C. Wagner and Tom Mullica who made their living performing for folks in pubs, bars, taverns, places that serve alcohol. Alcohol lowers inhibitions, it impedes the ability to pay attention. In those performing situation you REALLY need to be ready for any contingency. And here's a newsflash: no matter how well you are prepared, at some point in your performing career, things will just go wrong. If a performing artist says to you that she/he never got busted in a routine or encountered a difficult situation, that person is lying.

Now, I want to offer some positive suggestions.

Do you live near a university or college? Students are GREAT spectators in my experience and they are a great way to field test a routine to see if it is ready for paying gigs. When I lived in America I would do some street magic on Penn State's main campus at least twice a month. I had to deal with the ebb and flow of people moving from building to building, I had to deal with noise, with people stopping to watch when I was in the middle of a routine. There are many more factors but the point is I kept doing what I do as a performer. I didn't allow the situation to control me. Rather I USED the situation for the benefit of my performance. I would include these curious passersby IN the performance. They had NO idea what was going on but by including them (GENTLY) the byplay between the spectators and I became more rich.

Another suggestion I would offer is to get involved in community theater. This is a FREE education about performing. You can learn SO very much by being around the cast and crew that you will be light years ahead of most. My dear friend Fred Becker is one of the foremost cruise ship magicians in America. He and I went to high school together. When I met him, Fred was a bit shy. I encouraged him to get involved with a production our theater group was rehearsing. He later told me that the experience improved his performance chops exponentially.

You can get in touch with charities, hospitals, assisted living communities, and veteran's homes and volunteer to perform. You will gain experience and confidence and you will be doing a good turn for your audiences. It's good karma; a win-win situation.

Don't hide from people. Perform and give your spectators your VERY best. Never let them know you are new. Just learn the routines, practice them, rehearse them, then try them out.

In the other thread I suggested some books for you: Strong Magic and Maximum Entertainment. Darwin Ortiz and Ken Weber respectively will teach you a LOT about the art and make you ask the hard questions to yourself. I also mentioned The Magic Menu. Now I'm going to suggest a couple more PLUS a DVD you should snag.

Subscribe to Genii and look for Jeff McBride's "Show Doctor" column. It's a gold mine of practical information. I would strongly recommend Eugene Burger's The Experience of Magic. Finally, gran a copy of Paul Green's superb DVD titled In The Trenches. You will learn GREAT routines and moreover, by watch the why as well as the WHAT Paul is doing, you will find that YOU have untapped resources you never knew you had. PM Paul and tell him I sent you.

I think it's great that you are asking questions. It shows that you are conscious of the fact that people in the community will help you as long as it's evident that you have done your homework. I can tell you without reservation that I always learn from the community here and I am a MUCH better performer thanks to them.

Don't give and don't run!

Best,
Vlad

Thanks for another great reply. Will reread it a few times

Vlad, as always, you provide such clear and valuable advice and insight!

When I was just starting out I was terrified of failure. I wanted to be "over-prepared". And so I rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed, until I could do all my tricks and routines (and especially sleights) without thinking about them.

Even then, once I had perfected all that and started performing for people, I discovered I still had a lot to learn about presentation and audience interaction & control. It takes years. But with perseverance and determination and "putting yourself out there", it gradually gets easier and more natural. In the long run, it's worth the effort.

It is our job as magicians to entertain. Bring people joy. With close up magic, it is a conversation, not a lecture. If someone wants to show you something, let them. Indulge their ego. Make them feel good. That's the reason entertainers is it not? Seeing people laughing and having a good time is what makes magic so fun.

To be honest, it sounds a little like you need to relax a bit and learn to just hang out with people and establish positive interactions. It seems like almost every reaction you're getting--even positive ones--you are taking in a negative way.


What's the harm in someone trying a trick? Again, you do want to be in control if it's a performance, but this sounded pretty casual. Literally "running away" sounds like a pretty weird thing to do socially. I don't think I've ever ran away in any social situation... I'd probably only do that if someone pulled a gun on me or something.



Again--no hate here, but this is a bit crazy. If you are going out to perform things, people filming you are not being voyeurs. When we go and perform for random people, we're in fact the ones who are being a little weird and exhibitionist. Also, people WILL film you with their phones. If they don't, you're probably not a very good performer. Heck, people take pics of their meals when they go out to eat, take pictures of a sunset that they see--they film anything and everything that is even remotely interesting. So if people are filming you, you should probably take it as a compliment. You can't be going out, trying to get people to pay attention to you as you perform magic, and then be offended if they do pay attention and are even so interested that they film you.

I see my advice was sort of repeating advice earlier in the thread, so my apologies. But just to sum up, don't be too uptight about your performances. Just be laid back and confident. You're probably visualizing best-case scenarios for your magic, and then being upset when the real world is much sloppier. Just take it as a learning experience and don't worry too much about everything going perfectly.

Obviously it is situation-specific, but I generally agree with Mary and Zach about letting the person who wants to show a trick permission to do so.

One of two things will happen...it will be good or bad (most likely bad). Like Mary said, if it is good, might as well appreciate it with everyone else. You can give a few strokes and the guy gets the attention he wants and will most likely let you go on without further interruption. You can even springboard off his efforts to take back control by treating him as a peer, "Hey, thanks Joe...that was cool. Give me the deck and let try some mind reading. Now, you probably know this one, Joe, but...." and move on. You've acknowledged him and affirmed him as a transition away from his interruption.

If his trick stinks, it gives you something to to be way better than. You can do the same type of transition..."Hmmm Joe, I have not seen that one before. Have you seen this one?..." and on with your effect.

One other way to handle is is control the timing...."Sure, Joe...I'd love to see your trick in just a moment. Let me finish this and you'll have the stage all to yourself...", then finish up and let him do his thing. The contrast of his terrible trick makes you look even better, but either way you don't have to wrestle back the spotlight because you're done.

Then Mary's. Then Vlads again.

Actually, they are more misunderstood than difficult. I recently finished a year long tour as the opening act for Alvin and The Chipmunks (they are really into magic). I found that most, if not all, of the hamsters in the crowd were very content if you just give them a playing card to gnaw on before you begin. On behalf of all the misunderstood critters in nature, I hope that clears things up.

Other than that, I fully agree with your entire reply (as always) ESPECIALLY picking up Paul Green's In the Trenches (as well as his Classic Force dvd) There is also a Penguin Live Lecture where "There will also be discussion on what it is like to be a Journeyman Magician, how to think like a layman, how to develop rapport with an audience, the vision of your performance, and how to develop scripts and routines. You do not want to miss this!"
http://www.penguinmagic.com/magician/paul-green and he was part of the Live at the Jailhouse dvd set http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/1584

Paul is one of only a few "Hero's" I have in magic. I have learned so many bits and pieces from his works that I always carry (or wear) something "green" when I perform as a homage.

One important thing that I have learned over the years is - It is not always the effects that you learn from a dvd, download or book that are important, It is the little nuances that are interweaved in them that can make "your magic" better if you utilize them. The "other guy" in your scenario may have been able to do a "card trick" and it may have even been a "good" card trick, but "YOU" can differentiate yourself by being a "Performer". I have always said - "Anyone can 'do' magic, but it takes a certain skill that only comes with study and practice to 'perform' great magic" That is where you shine over the occasional person you will run across who wants to show you a card trick.

Keep pressing on, it is the only way you will get better and build confidence. Running and hiding is a dead end street.

For start I would'nt run away..
If its a group of guys who are drunk I would not start doing them magic at all.. no point in showing someone who "isn't interested" or just want to make fun of me.
if someone wants to try and show, I will usually let them, hopefully they would fail badly or do quite okay and ill appluade and use them for my next trick, which gave them to option to be with me and do magic with me, which makes them shut up

I'm not much of a magician, just fascinated with card deceptions, so even if I do a gambling demo I don't have that problem. However when I used to do more tricks and show them to people I'd always show them and even reccomend them something simple for them to goof around with. I usually go like "here's something to show your family" and I show them a really simple trick using 4 cards. For example you tell them to show someone 9C and 8S and miscall them, put into the middle of the deck, but have 9S and 8C on the bottom and top. Then you show the throwing the deck production (sorry, don't know the name - figured it out on my own) and that's it. People appreciate such openness - and you don't need to give away a single thing. Considering that people expose bottom dealing CONSTANTLY (and I don't want to go crazy about it, so I'll just leave it at that) that's a nice touch to give to your show whenever you have people who'd like to try stuff. Also there's a very good mathmatical trick by John Bannon that you could show them - as Harry Lorayne said in "Close-up Card Magic" math tricks are more of riddles than deceptions and illusions. Hope that helps <3

Wow you two are ****ing stupid, I mean really ****ing stupid!!
She mentions that they are Pakistani. Big deal. Being Pakistani is an etnicity not a race.

Great advice Vlad!