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SimonCard Special user 601 Posts |
Magicians say a lot of absurd things when performing. I don't see how DM's absurd claims are part of performing. The absurd things magicians say usually make people smile and laugh like Bill Malone and David Williamson. The stuff DM says makes people(at lease me) disgusted and it repels people(at least me) away.
Magicians are actors, and for actors not only your capability is important, so is your image and impression. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Quote: On Mar 6, 2017, Ahlichs wrote:
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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ULockJustice Loyal user Columbus, OH 201 Posts |
A magician's job is not to make absurd claims. A magician's job is to present something that surprises their audience. Now that can be absurd, or it can be rather straightforward. Don't for a second confuse this project with the job of a magician, because this is not a magic project. It's a study of Erdnase, which is fundamentally a treatise on cheating at cards. If the project was only the ledgerdemain section then you would have a point. It's not, so don't call it a magic project, just because it's sold by a magician on a magic website.
What's tremendously irritating about this project is the way it's presented and shoved in people's faces in such a combative way. If he's going to make absurd claims and and act like an absolute ****** about it then it's crossed from marketing and a personality and become grating. People keep making this allusion to it all being like professional wrestling, but the difference is everyone knows it's fake. There's never an indication in any of the marketing or responses from E or M that this is fake. If he had gone over this over the top but at least hinted that it was in good fun and said, "Hey guys, sorry you didn't like our original marketing campaign. We thought it would be fun, but I guess you guys weren't into it. At the end of the day I spent a tremendous amount of time working through the Erdnase material and here's my take away. I think some people are going to find this really cool, and maybe if you guys want to jam on some classic moves then that would be dope. It's been a laugh. Next time we'll see if we can afford color film. j/k." I think the vast majority of people would have said, "Whatever dude. You do you," and everyone would have moved on with their lives. But that's not how it was presented. It was a huge middle finger, and then when people started to take the mickey out of him he bristled up like a hedgehog with herpes and dug really hard into this character that is premised on being an arrogant. Bee-tee-dubs, as a professional comedy writer an arrogant jerk character does not hold an audience's attention for long. They end up hating the character and wishing it would go away. Arrogance that is not rooted in sympathy is rarely interesting from a character development point of view. But I digress. Does that warrant death threats? Absolutely not. But that's where they came from. There was zero sense of humor injected into this project, or used to answer the widespread criticism of the project. Maybe there was some laughing and joking in the offices, but it wasn't public. It only escalated because E decided to fight fire with napalm. AMcD's criticism of the profanity in the annotation is spot on. Don't defend that. Because M's presenting this project as his annotations and notes on a classic text in the context of a teaching project. Now maybe, just maybe, it was only the one page AMcD posted, and the rest of it is a cogent and well thought out series of margin notes that discuss improved finger placement, thoughts on stacking formulas, and well written responses to Erdnase' own criticisms of sleight of hand and cheating stratagems. Given that the majority of this project was built around, "Look how much better I am," I sincerely doubt that. If Eoin Colfer released an annotated version of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, and it was just red scratch marks talking about what a ludicrous idea the impossibility drive was, and sold it as a guide to writing better fiction, you'd be livid if you spent $100 on that. Don't call it an annotated guide and present it as an instructional video set. Call it a piece of art and sell it in the accessories section. I might buy it then. I sure wouldn't be upset with him for making art. Then it's not an examination of a historically important text in our world. Then I don't care what you write on it. Draw the reproductive organs of an elk on the backs of all the illustrations of the cards and tell the world you're making a statement on Erdnase as an art project. Don't sell it as a teaching item. This is an art project. It should be sold as such. Personally, I like some of his actual contributions to magic. Angle Zero is a clever concept. Put out more stuff like that, and at least acknowledge you're a character. Otherwise you're just being a pratt and not helping the art, as you so desperately claim to be in your diatribes regarding the deception arts.
This is the profile of Comedian + Magician Erik Tait. A self-promoting sleight of hand artist who thinks he is the cat's meow.
PM for beard tips. |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Tommy,
once you have received his terrific contribution to the Art of Magic, please give a us a review. |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
I think we all will have to admit that Dan Madison, regardless of what we think of him and his offering, has indirectly created a very lively thread on The Gambling Spot.
We also have to acknowledge Artie Fufkin's extraordinary foresight in posting the link. He no doubt knew it would created many comments and much activity. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Your claims that magician's do not make absurd claims are nonsense. If ever you are looking for aa nonsensical conversation then raise the subject of impossibility. Magicians make absurd claims and what is surprising is that they apparently prove them true for amusement. The characters they create are equally absurd. The last one we saw was wearing a tall hat and called himself Merlin. When you check his Birth Certificate you will no doubt find he is lying and probably an Italian.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Ahlichs New user 76 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 7, 2017, tommy wrote: I get what you're saying. I mean, mentalists aren't *actually* psychic, but I think the difference between most absurd claims from magicians and this is that this isn't presented in the context of a performance. It's an educational product marketed at magicians. I think if he really was the greatest card handler that ever lived and was so cocky and aggressive towards his customers and the rest of the community, a lot more people might give him more of a pass. But he isn't. So he's pulling this really condescending schtick, and he's not doing it well enough to buy it. If I told you I could fly and offered a paid product to teach you to fly, and all I was doing in the video was jumping and then telling you that I'm Motherf******* Superman, you'd call ******** on me. So that's what's happening here. I think if you make audacious claims to an audience who should (but maybe doesn't always) know better, you should be able to back it up. Then again, that whole argument is predicated on this being an educational project and not a performance. Maybe he thinks it's a performance, targeted at magicians, and delivered as a download. Either way, the marketing clearly worked |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Magic is all about absurdity as any reasonable jury would agree. Do you believe in magic or do believe that magic is absurd like sensible people do? Magicians make absurd claims then surprisingly prove them true for amusement obviously. Now we are talking here about a magician, who makes absurd claims and with that fact, nobody here disagrees. If the charge is that the magician makes absurd claims, then the magician pleads guilty and is proud of it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Apparently the project has been taken down because DM has received... death threats???
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Artie Fufkin Special user 853 Posts |
That's some crazy stuff.
It's definitely been removed from sale, and it's clearly stated that removing it from sale was in response to online "death threats" made against Madison (although the web page is still up in all its glory). Regardless of whether it's just more of Madison's gorilla marketing, or a gross overreaction to a couple of posts made by an angry 12 year old - it doesn't change anything we've been talking about in this thread. It's still a poorly thought out project that's designed only to appeal to Madison's small cadre of young sycophants. If I was to guess, I would posit that the marketing for Madison's project was (in fact) NOT working, and the project was NOT selling well ... and this is Ellusionist and Madison's attempt to regain control of the narrative ... which is actually a savvy business move. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Even more absurdity.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
This thread becomes more bizarre with the passing of time.
I would think that most likely sales of Madison's BS project were not going well and this might be an effort to turn it around. As far as credible online death threats???...kinda ridiculous to me. Magi/Demo land can be so absurd that it is almost hilarious at times. Among hustler and scufflers, Madison would be referred to as a "clown," a description which would be all they would need to know about him. Credible death threats...c'mon guys. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I knew, as everyone knows, that the easiest way to attract a crowd is to let it be known that at a given time and a given place someone is going to attempt something that in the event of failure will mean sudden death.
-Houdini
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Everyone around the earth was making the fun out of him. I think it's ans attempt to save what can be saved.
That said, there are crazy people as well. Who knows? |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
What is it exactly that makes you boys think that magicians ought to make credible statements?
Is it not the job of all magicians to make incredible statements? You laugh at the incredible statement made and then to your surprise the magician apparently proves it true! So you boys have all fallen into his trap and now when somebody does apparently make an attempt on his life you suckers will all be surprised.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Oh yes, he got me. Oh, I'm such a fool. No, a sucker. What a hero. A genius...
I don't clearly see your point. Nobody asks him to do credible statements. Personally, it's all his boasting that p* me off. He is ridiculous. |
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
Maybe the death threats were coming from legions of sharps, sharks, and hustlers out to get him for tipping all the real work.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If nobody asks him to do credible statements, then why say "Credible death threats...c'mon guys"?
It is self-evident that you are all questioning the credibility of a magician which in itself is silly.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Ahlichs New user 76 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 8, 2017, tommy wrote: For sure. People shouldn't get so riled up at the statements from someone whose job it is to spin hyperbole. |
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MarcoLostSomething Regular user 144 Posts |
I think magician's statements are acceptable until the point they surpass the entertainment level, and become too exaggerated and out of context.
It is unethic to make such claims because people can believe them. For example in my opinion it's unethic to pretend to talk to people's spirits because some people believe it. Either way I see nothing wrong in not liking the "acting" of such a "magician". If DM presents himself in such a way, people are free to dislike it. The same happens with movie actors, it's not that I believe Ben Affleck is actually Batman, but if the acting sucks, it sucks. |
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