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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Coaching (40 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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TomBoleware
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I remember having lunch with Zig Ziglar many years ago and he said this very thing, “motivation comes from within.” I quietly said in a joking tone, then why do people pay you such high fees, he put his finger up to his mouth and gave me the shhh sign, and said, it’s a secret, as we both laughed. Still today, one of Zig’s most remembered sayings is, “People often say that motivation doesn't last. Well, neither does bathing - that's why we recommend it daily.”

So I do agree, “Motivation comes from within” but sometimes self gets lazy and we need to be reminded to get up and go. A good coach can be helpful with this because a ‘good’ coach is more than just a teacher; he/she is an accountability partner. It is so easy to break the promises we make to ourselves, but less so when we involve other people. Even the best self starters get lazy at times and a little push and nudge from someone else can be the difference between success and failure.

Also, I completely agree with Lou that knowing a little something about the coach is very important. Teacher habits can be like viruses and easily transferred from one to the other and often are caught without you knowing it.

Tom
A habit is a habit until you realize you doing it, then it is a choice.

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Dannydoyle
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Hey if for whatever reason you need one go ahead, get one.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
thomasR
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If saving $1,000 or more per month won't motivate me (by not hiring a coach) I'm not sure what they ever could do to motivate me!
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Mar 20, 2017, thomasR wrote:
If saving $1,000 or more per month won't motivate me (by not hiring a coach) I'm not sure what they ever could do to motivate me!


Welcome to my island. Care for a drink?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
charliecheckers
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Most people who desire to have a sustained career in the entertainment business that supports their family and provides them with the standard of living they aspire to, fail to achieve that goal. This is what I meant by most people failing.
Quote:
On Mar 20, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
And by the way Charlie with your idea that most fall in business you must base that on those who have little success when trying.

This is true - not sure how to tease out the numbers, but a very valid point.

Quote:
Well according to that theory most coaching students fail. Apply your theory consistently.

I am not sure if there are statistics that look at success rates based on with/without coaching, but it would be interesting. Of course you would have to take into account that those who hire coaches are already a different subset regardless of the benefit/lack of benefit that coaching offers.
The whole reason to consider hiring a coach is if it offers you a greater opportunity for success than moving forward without one, a competitive advantage. Many companies hire consultants for lengthy contracts, despite having access to resources on their own.

It seems like there are differing perceptions of how different people are perceiving and defining a coach and what a coach offers.
Dannydoyle
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Companies hiring consultants is apples and oranges.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
RobertSmith
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Quote:
On Mar 20, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Companies hiring consultants is apples and oranges.



Agreed.

I can't help but roll my eyes at people's Instagram accounts. They're claiming to be "life coaches" and they're 26 years old.
I'm sure the same happens with magicians. They get a restaurant gig and now they've got a course, or coaching/consulting going on.

Are there viable coaches? Sure. But I wouldn't ever consider one without verifying the veracity of their claims.

Oh, there's that and 99.99999% of what any magic "coach" could tell you can be found for free searching the Café or even this cool new website called Google.

-Robert
Dannydoyle
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Robert yes.

I think the attraction of the process is feeling like you are doing something. Some people actually need that.

Some end up needing the process and are sort of addicted to it. It is akin to this who keep taking hypnosis seminars and never ever do an actual hypnosis show.

If it helps you then do it. That is the bottom line. Clearly the op has received some benefit from it. That is money well spent.

Clearly Lou likes the process and it benefits him. That is money well spent.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Mar 20, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
Oh, there's that and 99.99999% of what any magic "coach" could tell you can be found for free searching the Café or even this cool new website called Google.

-Robert


I think this is an opinion or perception of someone who truly doesn't understand or has not experienced working with a coach. While I am not a "magic coach" I work with many magicians and I can assure you 95% of my core content will not be found from a Google search and most not previously published or available elsewhere.
Dannydoyle
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99% of coaches give the others a bad name.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
thomasR
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Quote:
On Mar 21, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
99% of coaches give the others a bad name.


Yes. And 99% of coaches say they are the 1%! Ha!
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Mar 21, 2017, thomasR wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 21, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
99% of coaches give the others a bad name.


Yes. And 99% of coaches say they are the 1%! Ha!


Oh my yes a nice addition!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Keith Raygor
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Quote:
On Mar 20, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
Oh, there's that and 99.99999% of what any magic "coach" could tell you can be found for free searching the Café or even this cool new website called Google.

Quote:
On Mar 21, 2017, Mindpro wrote:
I can assure you 95% of my core content will not be found from a Google search and most not previously published or available elsewhere.

Quote:
On Mar 21, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
99% of coaches give the others a bad name.

Quote:
On Mar 21, 2017, thomasR wrote:
Yes. And 99% of coaches say they are the 1%! Ha!


I think I got this.
Mindpro
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I'm betting you actually don't.
lou serrano
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Quote:
On Mar 18, 2017, thomasR wrote:
Here's a thought.... rather than paying one lump sum to a personal coach over a year, you could potentially spread that out and have multiple "personal consultations" that would cover a range of topics and views.


I was thinking about this comment, and trying to figure out why it wasn't sitting well with me, and then it hit me.

I recently had a conversation with someone who's 5-day conference I'll be attending later this year, and he gave me an analogy to think about. This is the way he put it:

His wife makes the best apple pie. It's so good that people often ask for her recipe. Once they have the recipe they start gathering the ingredients, but instead of using a particular brand of crust they decide to use a different brand, and instead of using real sugar they decide to use an artificial sweetener, and instead of baking the pie for an hour they bake it for 45 minutes. Once the pie is finished they wonder why the pie doesn't taste the same.The answer is that they changed the recipe.

The same can apply to having multiple consultants. You're not following any particular recipe. You're mixing and matching, and the result is something completely different from what any of the consultants were trying to help you achieve. The result might be better, or it might be worse.

I'm not saying that it's a bad way of doing things, but it's certainly something to consider.

One final thought: If one is just learning to bake, it's probably best to stick with the recipe. If you're already an expert chef, then experimentation can be a wonderful thing.

Respectfully,

Lou serrano
Mindpro
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I also think there are many layers and levels to this which many fail to recognize or understand. Some learn and work better in a group setting, others prefer one on one. In a group setting some eat up the "interaction exercises with those around you" type of stuff (turn to the person next to you, behind you, and ...), others despise this, some prefer to read, some prefer to watch video, some need to see examples, others don't and would rather see/use it as applied to their own as the example, some prefer step by step instruction, others prefer to get a more complete understanding and figure the implementation as it best fits them, some learn by a definitive text or curriculum while others prefer more in-depth analysis and discussion leading to self-application.

Same for when it comes to books or manuals, some begin by looking at the last page to see how long it is, then as they read or progress through it their inner-dialog is "I'm a 1/4 of the way through it", "now I'm halfway through it", and "only 35 more pages to go." Getting to the end is all that matters and in the shortest time possible, others prefer to be much more thorough and digest every nugget and morsel completely with a full understanding and applicable plan as it applies directly to themselves. While yet others first want to read through it, then plan on immediately going through it a second and perhaps third time more thoroughly.

How people want, desire and respond to learning, education, implementation and information in general varies completely from person to person. Coaching is and should be a very personal experience. Same for content. It is also much more than just coaching as for many it is the mentoring that is also extremely beneficial. Having direct access to a wealth of someone's knowledge is priceless. Those that were lucky enough to come up with mentors know exactly what I'm talking about, others can only imagine or try to understand.

Most information available is for a specific approach, from a specific person for a specific discipline. This is incredibly limiting as far as content, expected results and actual results.

There is much more to this including the deeper levels of psychology for one to be productive and successful. Anything else is typically general information which to me has minimal value and limited results.

I can't tell you how many I have worked with have said "wow, there is far more to being a successful performer or running an entertainment business that I would have ever imagined." Breaking incorrect perceptions and poor habits and beliefs is only the beginning. As is teaching the concept of operating from the sole perspective of honesty and reality.
thomasR
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Lou, I do understand what you are saying and it makes some sense. I'm more of the type who would look up good recipes, both free and paid, and then research the best apples in my area, and then based on several recipes try to bake an apple pie that is perfect for me in my current location, season, etc.

And at any point... I can call or email a pastry chef and ask questions or advice.
Tim Friday
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Guys I think many of you are over analyzing the concept of coaching. If you want a coach who has your exact same situation, you may never find one. So far I have had two different coaches and both of them are in very different locations and markets than I am, yet I have still learned a lot from them.

When I get a coach I come from the place of the student, to figure out what I can learn rather than point out how their business is different from mine. I wonder, to those who are taking an oppositional stance to coaching in this thread - have you ever had a coach for your business?
thomasR
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No I haven't had a coach, nor do I ever intend to hire one. I would absolutely hire someone for consultations... And maybe that would even turn into something that resembled coaching.

Tim... Maybe you can speak on what specifically your coaches did for you? what did a coach help you accomplish and do you think you could have accomplised that without his or her help and why or why not?
charliecheckers
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Taking smart risks is one thing I have tried to hold myself to. I recall four years ago in The Little Darlings section The Great Zucchini offered to have anyone come see a few of his performances and join him for dinner at no expense, no strings attached. He had reported to perform about 500 shows a year, most for his asking price of $350. What ensued on the Café was typical actions of performers calling him out, doubting his claims and such. My brother and I contacted him, jumped in our cars and headed 7 hours to Washington to take him up on the offer. That weekend we learned first hand about how to apply the law of scarcity, target market, show create, control audiences, set customer expectations and a whole lot more. Oh, and one other thing...we also received the necessary contacts to apply for performing at The White House Easter Egg Roll. As we drove back home we were wondering how many children's performers might live in a 7 hour radius of Washington that chose to believe he (Zucchini) wasn't worth their time.

I share this because here again we have a senario where Mindpro has posted content numerous times at length that for all the world seems like he sure knows of what he speaks. In this thread alone is pure gold for those willing to digest his offering. Yet, we have the doubters and ones who want to see more. My brother, I'm sure, did not mean for this thread to be a infomercial for Mindpro, but if in sharing my perspective on it seems like it is, so be it. Mindpro's intro offer was the cost of a new prop and a four hour investment of time. With as much exposure we have to his body of work it is a no brainer for those who are serious and in need of assistance either setting or achieving their career ambitions. It is a smart risk, there is just no other way to say it. That is not to say that it would necessarily benefit everyone, or that one might be better off pursuing Lou's offering (or others) and taking a smart risk on that. I am simply saying that many performers would benefit from expanding their horizons.

I
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