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Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
18918 Posts

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I failed at a 4 wall deal so badly I wanted to hire a bouncer to throw people INTO the place!

Thomas if you have not read my posts on failure and how it can help and all that then you simply are not paying attention, or just want to argue.

This is my single largest complaint about the Café' in general is that nobody ever fails. Nobody has setbacks, nobody ever does anything that is wrong. I am the ONLY idiot in the world of magic who fails at anything LOL.

Read all the books, nobody ever fails. Now listen to the podcasts, nobody ever fails. It is all spin and outright LIES about it and it lures other unsuspecting kids into the same stupid mistakes.

There are SO many threads here about how someone whoever is going to do X show, and it will be great and such. Then when we ask to hear the results, NOTHING. Radio silence. You know full well they have failed and don't have the cajones to admit it.

Then you get the nonsense of "if you learned from it you didn't fail" to try to be supportive because after all we are "magicians helping magicians". (TO FAIL.)

I have in one way or another failed in almost every market I have ever tried. Does that mean I left them? NO! It means I learned from that failure and moved on until I WAS a success. But nobody, and I mean NOBODY knows everything going into any market and Branson is a PERFECT example. But all anyone seems to care about is ego and "I didn't fail".

There is a show in Branson right now that is on the outside a HUGE draw and success. Until of course you realize he is selling ticket brokers $1 tickets. He probably has 500 people a night, and has $800 in costs, but he thinks he is doing GREAT because he has people in his audience that paid a buck for the show and applaud for him. That is terrifyingly stupid.

Don't be afraid to fail. Failure is a temporary state. Or at least it can be.

And to swerve this back on topic, ANY coaching program that does not allow for failure is not one I would want to take. One that does not teach a person how to use failure to become something is not worth taking. Obviously nobody here does that, I mean those other coaching courses and those other people.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Inner circle
8704 Posts

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Quote:
On Jun 11, 2018, thomasR wrote:
I'm pretty sure Mindpro was referring to Bill Gladwell. I got value from his online talks. Just because he doesn't know everything doesn't mean I can't learn from what has worked, and now what hasn't worked from him. I thought he was quite honest on his follow up talk about how certain things that worked in Gatlinburg didn't work for him in other markets.



The point is many listen to lectures like this as coming from some type of authority or experience where they have worked out the bugs and figured out what has worked (for them). The problem is it was very basic, quite incomplete and had many potentially dangerous holes in it. I have several students and others I have heard from that had some bad (and costly) experiences from following this limited and incomplete info. So while you and others think you received value, insight, and knowledge, it is more about what wasn't included (or known) that can create the real issues.

Since you are talking about Bill Gladwell, even he said he had no idea what he was doing, basically just winging it. He even kind of proudly boasts about this and the fact that heck he didn't have a show or wasnt even a mentalist when he booked a mentalism show! He tossed something together in a few days/weeks. Again, more or less winging it. This may be fine for him, in his situation and market, but to offer and eventually sell this information can again be dangerous. Perhaps not intentionally, I've spoken to Bill and don't believe he even realized this or would ever do it intentionally.

This seems to happen a lot on the magic community, people offer their limited information thinking it will help someone, not completely understanding how such limted or incompelte informaton can hurt or cause damage to others. Then of course performer's receive and accept this info in their own context, not necessarily as offered, and that too can have consequences.

Also, it should be said that Bill is a professional Salesman by trade/occupation. That is his background and profession. He approached his deal as a salesman, not necessarily from a point of being an entertainment producer or a complete entertainment business position. This is something that is rarely ever talked about. Sooo many, almost all, interested in the concept of 2/4 walling are interested in how to find/get a venue and the type of deal to put together. Hardly ever will you hear them ask about or be interested in what it truly takes and what needs to be in known, done and in place to execute the deal properly for all 5 parties involved. What it truly takes for the deal to be successful on all levels.

Typically what I have seen happen in the majority of situations is onc ethey have the venue an dget the deal, all they want to do is then focus on their show. This alone will almost asure failure.
thomasR
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"Thomas if you have not read my posts on failure and how it can help and all that then you simply are not paying attention, or just want to argue. "

Oh I wasn't trying to argue with you at all Danny, I fully agree with everything you just said!!!
cafecheckers
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105 Posts

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Quote:
And to swerve this back on topic, ANY coaching program that does not allow for failure is not one I would want to take. One that does not teach a person how to use failure to become something is not worth taking. Obviously nobody here does that, I mean those other coaching courses and those other people.


This is a great point. I strongly agree that failure is critical in the learning process. In fact, I would say that the way a coach reacts to situations involving failure or mistakes is perhaps the best way to determine true capabilities. To me, it is like a swimming coach in that the coach has to know how to avoid complete drowning without stepping in every time the beginner feels like he/she is drowning.
Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
18918 Posts

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It is knowing the difference in drowning and learning to swim that makes the difference.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
cafecheckers
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105 Posts

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Quote:
On Jun 11, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
Don't be afraid to fail. Failure is a temporary state. Or at least it can be.


I have benefitted the most from failure when I owned it and did not pass it off as “it was meant to be” or “things happen for a reason” or other statements that seem like a positive attitude on the surface, but are really defense mechanisms to somehow remove fault or blame.

I also think one of the benefits of having a solid work ethic is that one can not only get more things done, but also expose themselves to failure more often and quickly because the greater activity produces both positive and negative results. Failing fast allows learning opportunities. For me, failing when I am younger and have fewer responsibilities outside of my business is the ideal time to take risks and learn from failures.

While I try not to fear failure, I try to minimize it by taking calculated risks. Here is one place coaching has really proven beneficial
Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
18918 Posts

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Yep. Problems are just solutions wearing work clothes.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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