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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On Mar 25, 2017, NYCTwister wrote: I'll be generous and pretend that there are only 300 million people in the country. How, exactly, would you propose to provide healthcare to everyone in the country for about 180 bucks a person?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Over a hundred million people are on Medicaid and Medicare already.
It would go a long way, and it's better than buying more freaking bombs. The point is that there is enough money in the tax base to get it done if the people who pretend to care, actually did.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
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On Mar 25, 2017, LobowolfXXX wrote: (These figures are all approximate ...) In 2014, Medicare (federal outlays) cost $505 billion. http://kff.org/medicare/fact-sheet/medic......t-sheet/ About 29 million Americans are uninsured. http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/05/10......re-s-Why The US population is about 319 million. So about 9% of $505 billion would be enough to cover healthcare for those presently uninsured. That would be about $46 billion.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
From one of the links I posted, looks like total Medicare benefit payments totaled $597 billion in 2014.
So 9% of that would be almost exactly the $54 billion NYCTwister mentioned. Freaks me out the numbers match so closely.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On Mar 26, 2017, balducci wrote: Your calculation appears to assume that the entire (covered) US population is covered by Medicare. Approximately 50 million people are covered by Medicare (actually fewer, and presumably fewer still in 2014. So you can't just take 9% of the total US population and prorate it. You have $505 billion covering fewer than 50 million people; in other words, the cost is over $10,000 per person, which means that those 29 million Americans would need not $46 billion, but a bit more than $300 million...call it a factor of around 7x. Moreover, Medicare doesn't fully cover healthcare expenses for the 17% or so of the population it DOES cover; that's why supplemental plans are purchased on top of Medicare coverage. See, e.g., http://www.marketwatch.com/(S(jpgxu155hzygvlzbebtr5r45))/story/you-might-need-nearly-350000-to-pay-for-health-care-costs-in-retirement-2017-02-02?link=MW_latest_news. ("Medicare generally covers only about 62% of the cost of health-care services for Medicare beneficiaries ages 65 and older, while out-of-pocket spending accounts for 13%.”) So, $300 million gets you 62% of the way there; that means it takes over $480 billion to get to 100%.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On Mar 26, 2017, balducci wrote: Unfortunately, the 29 million uninsured Americans correspond to over half of the people covered by Medicare, so you don't need 9% of the $597 billion..you need about 60% of it.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
You're right, my calculations were off. I blame the Maui Brewing Co. Coconut Porter.
But I would add that the over $10,000 per person is excessive. I'm not saying it is not accurate, I'm saying it is far more than should need to be spent. The figure in Canada is about $3000 (that's in US dollars). (That's for basic universal healthcare, of course some people have private add ons for dental and prescription drugs etc., much as you do in the States.)
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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1KJ Inner circle Warning: We will run out of new tricks in 4388 Posts |
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On Mar 25, 2017, LobowolfXXX wrote: Here are the two problems and a proposed solution: First, We DON'T NEED TO SPEND AS MUCH AS WE DO ON ILLNESS CARE. If our medical, educational, media, and society educated people on how to live a more healthy life, our medical expenses would drop significantly and we wouldn't need X billion dollars per year. Second, NYCTwister is exactly correct. If we didn't spend trillions of dollars creating enemies so we can spend trillions more fighting enemies, we would be rolling in dough and you and I wouldn't have to spend so much money on illness care premiums, and instead spend a tiny fraction of that money on actual health care.. Let's be honest, the war on ISIS is a war of greed. If there were no oil in the middle east, and a ton of oil in some other part of the world, the terrorist problem would be in that other part of the world. kj |
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1KJ Inner circle Warning: We will run out of new tricks in 4388 Posts |
BTW, I'm sure some here will not "buy" that we could lower medical costs through health education. However, we are mis-informed every day about our health. It's not about trying to control people's behavior, it's about education.
I bet few people are aware of the studies on fasting for example. I bet few people know that when you fast, it has been scientifically proven that your body goes into a "healing" mode, and if you stay on a regimen that includes fasting, even if you maintain your same diet when you are not fasting, your health increases dramatically, and the "healthcare" costs would decrease dramatically. Every single living creature tested has increased their health and their lifespan by around 40% with various forms of fasting. Humans on some of these regimens have lived into their 100s with not a single medication. Hey, it's your choice, you can live one lifestyle and end up on ten pills a day and feel ill all the time, or you can live a slightly different lifestyle and likely take zero pills and feel healthy. We know which option the "healthcare" industry would rather you take, but ultimately it's your choice. I can't blame any industry for trying to increase their profits. However, our government and our education system should be focused on protecting and educating people, instead of their focus on fleecing people. kj |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
If we are to believe you can lower health care costs through behavior, which you can, then it becomes a personal responsibility issue. One which your neighbor should not be required to pay for. I can't control your behavior.
Or government should be able to control that behavior. Not good is it?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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1KJ Inner circle Warning: We will run out of new tricks in 4388 Posts |
Yes, Danny, it is not good. Our government is already controlling (influencing) our behavior. The problem is they are influencing our behavior for the best interest of pharmaceutical companies, not the best interest of the people.
You are right, you can't control your neighbors behavior, but our government which is supposed to represent US, does exert a tremendous influence over your neighbors behavior. That is the problem. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Absolutely.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
I think that more information is better than less education, though I question the impact you (IKJ) seem to accord it. To the extent thist people's behavior affects their health adversely, the far bigger issue than lack of information is lack of willpower. Look at what people do with the information they DO have. Everyone knows exercise is good, smoking is bad, and spinach is healthier than French Fries. Calorie counts are posted in many restaurants. And as a society, what do we do woth that informations.,
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Salguod Nairb Room 101 0 Posts |
Socialized Medicine for all and accountability for none!
Or... Eat, Drink, and be Merry for tomorrow we claim disability!
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
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On Mar 26, 2017, LobowolfXXX wrote: Ignore it, because it's uncomfortable.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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1KJ Inner circle Warning: We will run out of new tricks in 4388 Posts |
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On Mar 26, 2017, LobowolfXXX wrote: I agree with you. I am always amazed when I see people younger than about 70 smoking. I can understand the 70 and older crowd, when they started, it was a different world. We should all know better now. kj |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts |
If we believe in free will or rational choice then "we all know" would suffice - ... maybe. IMHO those notions pertain to possibility more than facts.
A history teacher in middle school started off the year discussing history in terms of habits. There's also economics - choices in context. And of course we learn by example - that which gets elicits punishment is "bad" and that which gets rewarded is "good". Basic behaviorism, no allegory required.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Most people seem to think that advertising and propaganda only work for the other guy. Not so. The systems are sophisticated with plenty of research and empirical feedback invested into them and multi-layered. No one is immune.
And if you're thinking that it's not applicable to you...well then you just chose the card with the bent corner.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 31, 2017, landmark wrote: Well, obviously someone's gotten to you.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Oh, absolutely. No one is immune. It takes enormous vigilance to see when it's happening, and the most significant influencers are not at all apparent. For those of us of the rational persuasion, probably the hardest part is evaluating facts within a context that is not fully understood.
But let's pick the low-hanging fruit: What brand of toothpaste did you use this morning? How did that come about? What did you drink with dinner last night? Why that brand? From there we can go on to statements like "my country is the greatest in the world," and with more difficulty,"It's mine, not yours."
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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