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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
You spent time researching it did you? This implies that you know how to read. If so, re-read my post where I stated that it was sold in a Magic shop that I used to run in the late 90's. There are numerous (and well-known) folks that can vouch for this,as well as personal students. If you had've done your research, then you would have also known about Paul Brook's routine as well - but you didn't.
What do you expect me to do - go try and round up folks on the other side of the country who bought it from me, explain the situation, and then have them come on here and say something just because some random nobody on the internet feels I need to explain myself to him? Nonsense. We both know that you're doing this just because I stopped replying to your pm's for freebies. |
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Yuan Moons Veteran user 348 Posts |
So rude! First off I do know about Paul Brooks effect as I own it and obviously I can read as I was able to see that you copied Richard Busch's effect.
I don't know what you mean about the freebie effect. That wasn't me and you are definitely confusing me with someone else. And we could all do what you've done, copy an effect and then say we released it to our local magic club 20 years previously. It's a cop out. I can't actually find anything you've released except a colour changing deck routine. In the end I'm not interested in talking to you about it if you can't show where it was published. The information I have was for everyone else and I only posted it because it seemed you had done it again. Otherwise I wouldn't have said anything. You do what you want. |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12942 Posts |
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On Apr 5, 2017, Yuan Moons wrote: Sometimes Mr Moons you must take a persons word for things. Sudo has released to the Café several products which most members were very happy with and enjoyed his thinking very much. J |
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
Rude? There's nothing more rude than PUBLICLY calling somebody a thief and a liar which is what you're doing, especially when you say things like this: "And we could all do what you've done, copy an effect and then say we released it to our local magic club 20 years previously." If you are familiar with Paul's routine, then how come you're not trying to raise a stink with him as well?
Reading comprehension: Do you have it? I never said I released it at the local magic club. I told you already - it was marketed at the magic shop I ran back in the late 90's. The only effect you did find was the one that was marketed through Penguin in 2005. Penguin magic wasn't around in the late 90's and neither was the Magic Café and Murphy's had just gotten into business - there was no global distribution of this and ebooks weren't a thing back then either. Ask anybody who has owned or run a Magic shop, and you'll find that it is not an uncommon practice for them to put out effects of their own at the shop to sell. There are many people who know that I was doing this back then, who bought it and knew me, and whom I'm sure that if they read this will verify that - it was a pet effect of mine at the time after having watched Max's Videomind series. And you can deny your PM's all you like - I'm 100% certain that there is only ONE username here with the name Yuan Moons. I see Claudio "liked" your last post - there's another user that was miffed after I stopped sending out Neti Neti for free. What a wonderful thing it is to try and share here... At this point, I will follow my better judgement and not reply to you any further. I have a proven track record of creativity - especially when it comes to taking existing effects and improving upon them. And what's more, is that I've only released a small amount of my work so far... |
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Stunninger Inner circle 2819 Posts |
Sudo, you are a great guy and a brilliant creator. Keep up the wonderful work. I hope you will continue releasing your creations for many years to come. Don't let the complainers get you down. They are not worth your time.
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Yogi2x4 Regular user 190 Posts |
Sudo doesn't do this for the money obviously, so why would he be stealing ideas for recognition? I have the honor of knowing him well enough to refuse even considering entertaining ideas of theft. That's not his style at all. He has a passion for the art and a library beyond my comprehension. He also makes great efforts to credit and was the one who taught me the standards of respectful conduct in this field. These occasional attacks are usually as unfounded as they are annoying. Why do so many of Sudo's threads have to turn into this. In video gaming (for money,) such accusations carry penalties like forced retirement upon proof otherwise... I see why
Isn't this slander? Anyway, keep it up Sudo. We know you're here on the Café as a magician helping magicians. When you do charge, it's cheaper than fast food, so... in terms of value, I'll be in your debt for life. |
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Yuan Moons Veteran user 348 Posts |
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On Apr 5, 2017, Sudo Nimh wrote: Ok, I've checked my Pm's now. I never asked you for anything free and never would. I've never solicited anything free in my life. The actual truth is YOU started a thread OFFERING an effect to people for FREE. YOU asked people to respond by PM. I did respond to that but wasn't that the point or is it just some game you like to play so you can go 'ha ha, I asked you to PM me and you did?' It's pretty low that you would ask people to respond and then call them out if they do and I don't get where you are going with that one. It seems like a playground diversion tactic to me. And you still copied Peek Performances lol That's all I have to say. This negativity is bumming me out. Peace and love to you Psuedo. Be original. |
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Yuan Moons Veteran user 348 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 5, 2017, John C wrote: Giving away free stuff doesn't make you immune. I can see you've created some stuff that you're probably quite rightly proud of. Probably took a lot of time and effort. I doubt you'd be pleased if someone released your chair test, said he'd actually invented it years before and called YOU out for not crediting HIM. You might want to see some proof that he'd really come up with the idea first before you added a credit to your manuscript no? Be honest now. |
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Dr Art Regular user 170 Posts |
The above post of yogi2x4 gives a very logical perspective for debunking the accusations made by the accusatory poster in this thread. Sudo gives away heaps of original creative material asking for nothing in return. His reward is shown in the many posts about earning respect in the community and having us appreciate his talent for creative routining and thinking out of the box ideas. His integrity also shines through in many of his personal posts.
"When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead And the white knight is talking backwards And the red queen's off with her head Remember what the dormouse said Feed your head, feed your head" |
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
Wow.
You just love to twist and twist don't ya Yuan? First off, I never "called-out" Richard. Again - reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it? I simply stated that my routine likely predates Richard's and that I had been selling it at the shop I ran and teaching it to students before he published his book and that I never cried "foul" about it when he did so. How is that calling somebody out? I am not calling out Richard personally here or accusing him (or Paul) of anything! I am simply stating my case because the ONLY person here repeatedly calling somebody out...is YOU! This thread isn't even about "Positively No Negative." Elliot initially thought I had published the same thing as something he had in Switchcraft with Neti - and it turns out it isn't the same. So what do you do? You make an ASSumption and come on here and crap all over it simply because when you PM'd me for a copy of Neti, I promptly deleted your PM (as I always do with you). And here you are, still continuing on when you have no horse in this race. Speaking of Magic Clubs: I hear the "Armchair Experts Association" is in need of a National President. You should apply! Maybe then you might get to feel like you've made a contribution to the art... TO ANYONE ELSE STILL READING: I am truly sorry that you guys have to read this stuff. I would love to just laugh and walk away from it - but I can't. For the few here that actually do know me, and know what I have been through over the previous 8 years of struggling with addiction and other life issues, you know why I can't let this sit. I know that I became a monster of a person during those years and made some awful decisions. I truly didn't meant to. But addiction and severe depression will do that to a person. I have been clean and sober now for a year and a half, and even still, I am working hard to regain my dignity and forgive myself which is one of the chief reasons why I do share with others. I still have a lot of healing to go. But I can't let this just sit. My apologies. |
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 5, 2017, Yuan Moons wrote: Somehow, I missed this post while I was writing my last.... Yuan, you know you have PM'd me for freebies when I offered them in the past. I have a small list of people I don't share with anymore. Why? Because their PM's read like this: "Send me the book." Or some other such nonsense. OR....they don't even take the time to even just say "thanks." It takes an incredible amount of time and work for me to do these and so if somebody is going to be that inconsiderate or lazy then why should I bother gifting them? You're on my list. Which is why I any time you PM me, I immediately delete your pm's. And now you are trying to turn this around by calling it a playground diversionary tactic - which it isn't. It's the reason why I don't respond to your PM's. The curious thing to note here is the intensity you have towards the effect in question and calling me a liar on it flat out. But you haven't become equally upset or flat out called me a liar when I revealed the truth of why you are actually upset... We both know THAT is your REAL motivation here with the initial attack, so you can drop the act any day now. And saying outright that I copied from Peek Performances? I have a right to feel incensed about this. How would you feel if you developed something that you loved, and another guy gets it into "official" print - completely independent of yours, and then nearly 20 years later, some internet twerp accuses you of stealing from the other guy when you publish your version without knowing the other existed at all? Yeah - I think you'd be upset too... |
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Yuan Moons Veteran user 348 Posts |
You are forcing me to defend myself about these ridiculous PMs. One thing I do know about you for sure is you are outright lying about them.
This is what actually happened... I sent you one PM to say I would take you up on your kind offer to send a copy of an effect you'd come up with. You never answered it and I assumed I had missed a deadline. No problem, who cares right? A week later I noticed that you were still asking people to Pm you for the same effect and I assumed you'd probably been inundated with requests so had missed a few. Because it sounded like something I would like, I sent you a PM to ask that if you were still sending it out, I would be interested in taking a look. All very polite and respectful. that's IT! We had no correspondence other than that and I didn't care either way. Why would I? I just assumed you had reached your limit or something and gave it no thought really. I had no idea you were ignoring me as I had no reason to think you had a problem with me. I'd never spoke to you before so why would you! Do you really think you are so important in my life that I would be upset that you didn't answer my PM? That's laughable. Now I may have doubted you before but now you've made it clear that you are dishonest with the lies about my PM's to you. We both know you're being dishonest about that right? |
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Yuan Moons Veteran user 348 Posts |
And regarding the addiction, I'm sorry to hear about that.
I was an addict myself for many years before finally getting healthy. I lost both my parents in 2016 in an horrific way that I don't care to mention and that almost sent me into a downward spiral. On top of that I was diagnosed with prostate cancer last December. I didn't realise it had a bearing on the conversation otherwise I would have mentioned it sooner. BTW in your manuscript you say you came up with the idea in 2001, not the 1990's as you are now claiming. Peek Performances was released 1st January 2001 so Busch must have come up with it in 2000 or earlier and must have published first. |
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
It's called an estimate Yuan.
I specifically remember teaching it to my (informal) student Michael Afshin in 1999. He was a security guard in the mall where the magic shop was located and used to stop in on lunch breaks to watch me perform and buy a few effects. I also used this effect at the shop to help sell Max's tapes. I would demonstrate this effect and then tell them that this was on Max's tapes and that if they bought them, I would teach them this handling. When I wrote up the manuscript for "Positively No Negative", I never imagined I'd have to defend myself, and couldn't remember precisely when I had first conceived it. I just knew that I had been doing this for a VERY long time and showed it to Eugene Burger (a close friend of Max's) in 2001 when I was studying with him - so I used that as my estimate. Back then, I wasn't even "into" Mentalism. Anybody that knows me will tell you that. I was a guy who could do 9 perfect faro's in a minute and extremely difficult sleight of hand. I was a card guy. I had just watched Max's tapes when they first came out and found a couple things, that I, as a mainly close up magician, could perform and demo so that I could sell the tapes at the shop. So whenever Max's tapes came out - it was shortly thereafter that this was created. I only decided to really look deeper after you put me on the defense about it. Like I said, I never suspected I would have to defend this when I wrote the manuscript. I have already stated why I didn't respond to your PM's - so you can deny it all you want. The fact that I didn't respond tells you that you were on my list, which means that you had in fact, PM'd me before for things that I was giving out. You yourself, admit that I didn't reply to you. The fact is, I have already released a good amount of work that features some innovative thinking, some of which, is far greater than the thinking demonstrated in "Positively No negative." Why you think that my thinking suddenly falls short for just this one effect, is beyond me. And yes, addiction and depression is a horrible thing. I am sorry to hear that you yourself have struggled with this. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. And I am further sorry to hear of your other issues. Admittedly, this is taking a toll on my mental well being. Why you choose to not accept what I am telling you when I have a large amount of creative work already can only lead me to the conclusion that you had (or have) a vendetta against me. I'm willing to drop the gloves at anytime you are as I don't wish to continue with this, but if you continue to keep insisting that I outright stole this, then I'm sorry, but I cannot let you keep saying that. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Does this argument come free with Neti Neti?
I've asked to be banned
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
The sad part, is that it doesn't even have anything to do with Neti unfortunately...
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
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On Apr 7, 2017, IAIN wrote: Depends if you want one argument or a course of them
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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rev_marcus New user Just getting started with 95 Posts |
Sudo was kind enough to share a copy of this with me, I finally got around to testing it out. I have to say that initially when I read the method that this was based on it reminded me of something that I'd seen in the past but couldn't quite place it. I don't recall being familiar with the sources cited or having seen/read the other potentially similar effects noted in this thread. When I initially read original effect, I felt like I had read either it or something very similar in the past and had just thrown it off to the side because of how transparent it felt to me.
As with everything that I have read of Sudo's to this point there is a simplicity to this that makes it so good. The minor tweak to the original method and the verbal outs show a great way of thinking. The way the choices are reduced with just a couple of very carefully chosen words make this not just a great individual effect but, I think, a great basis for thinking on a lot of other effects. Anyway, took friend of mine out for coffee this morning. I tried this out with a little muscle reading spin on it and it worked flawlessly. Thank you for sharing Sudo. |
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
You are most welcome!
This is the kind of stuff I really love to hear: field reports! It makes me very happy to know that my work is now thrilling new audiences in the hands of others. Really love your CMR idea for this - that's a great angle to use for this too. |
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kannon Inner circle BCN 1025 Posts |
Like many mentalists I've been inspired by and fascinated by Al Koran and went through the unhealthy obsessive stage of listening to old recordings of him, rewatching old video and leafing through his books and martin's works on him. Tinkering and fiddling with his effects, learning to be bold, and often came back to Korans cup and variations on using the hummer principle. I then became enamoured with a similar effect by Rick Maue and with plain old CMR...But it's the simple Koran idea of locating something in a position / underneath something.
Like Sudo and others the idea of just mixing the cups with no special process was always the goal. And dealing with the hummer niggle a challenge. Different handlings dealing with this niggle have always popped up, recently a few in Elliotts Switchcraft which are totally different to how Sudo handles it and as it's an essential mentalism text you surely have I'll assume you've seen them. So how does Sudo's deal with this niggle. Firstly, the core method of the Koran cup is still present therefore there is a special mixing process as per the original, where Sudo branches off is the participant can fairly mix the cups with no more direction from the performer and through a crafty piece of language a successful outcome is ensured. Crafty language is another immensely interesting side of mentalism and is a sign of a devious mind and I applaud Sudo's clever thinking which makes this fascinating and fun presentation, and the great principle instantly more performable, entertaining and less "puzzley" than it was before. And should Korans cup and Al Koran ever have been an obsession of yours or you just like good mentalism then you might just want to see what Sudo has done here.
My work and the Mtangulizi here http://kannonsworks.weebly.com featuring work on drawing duplications, a fiddle-free billet tear, bar mentalism, pendulums
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