OMG, Bill you seriously came back with the same misunderstanding of the same question??? LMAO!

Especially for you Bill, all others can stop reading here.


Just in short:
YOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND, why I did not buy another Proline, as has been exhaustively discussed, are they not out of business?

YOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND, when you said, "it’s like driving a Ford vs Chevy they are different". You’re getting it, without even knowing it, that’s exactly what I was talking about. I needed a Ford that was tough, and Owens was selling a Chevy saying it was tough. My routine because of the Patter needed that vehicle, not because I thought that vehicle was better or great, but just because of the way that vehicle performed. That’s it, period. (For people who thinks Chevy’s are tougher, just reverse my analogy)

YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND, when you said, "I never stood on stage, and hit rings together". Of course not Bill, you were not doing routines with Patter that coincides with those actions. But yet I explained to you a number of times above that that very action does coincide with my routine and Patter. In fact in a few instances, the sounds are the words, and spectators hear and understand what words go in that place. You have to understand that, it’s very crucial with you seeing the light on this question. Think about that.

Lastly, ironically with everything you did not seem to pick up comprehensively, you did answer the question. You say that Owens Rings do sound like a “Dead Clunk”, which is saying that Owens Marketing is completely false, and misrepresenting. Thank You. I’ll chalk that answer up to that side of the standings.

But I do not feel like arguing a point so meaningless with today’s youth, so whatever point you were trying to make, you are completely right, I am wrong, you win, and it’s over. Let’s not disrespect this forum any more than we (I said “We”) already have, and I apologize to anyone who had to read through these embarrassing postings, and explanations. I value this Forum way too much to keep this going.

Bill if you have anything further with me, I do accept PM’s and will gladly read whatever you have to say without further wasting other people’s time. Thank You…

I totally understand, you feel buyer's remorse, and think Owen Magic should refund your money or make you a set to your satisfaction. Totally understandable that you believe a statement from the 1940's should still old true today, and/or be rewritten.

Yes, I was totally surprised by my friends demonstration of the hollow rings. I did not want to kill his excitement, so at least I will not consider buying a set any further.

I do believe the 'statement' refers to the sold rings Owen's made.

Who's disrupting, you are talking about comparisons of two different manufactures Linking Rings. I believe this was posted because of your feelings, and those feelings brought you to post this topic.

If you don't post any further, neither will I, but if you respond, so will I.

I realize that this post was a long time ago, but thought I would put in my two cents worth. I understand that Skyfire wants a set of rings that ring, and he has incorporated that ringing into his routine. I have a set of 12 inch Owens that I bought back in the late 70's or early 80's. They ring well enough for me, but they are much like that in your demonstration video. I would agree that Owens overcharges for their stuff. I paid about $425 for a set of eight back then. I love them myself. As far as metals, I have searched information about stainless steel, and aluminum. There are many, many ways to mix the metals, and they are not all the same. As far as the Proline goes, I have this to say. My friend bout a set of them, and on the first day, he dropped one solid ring on a wood floor (not cement), and it broke at the weld. I would rather have the stainless steel.

The Owen stainless rings are the best IMO. Their welds are invisible and the rings sound musically when they collide.

Paul

I have just received a nice 8 ring set from Proline. They are thick, shiny, very light to handle with confidence. And they sound good. A beautiful, professional set of rings.

Good to hear. How long did it take to receive your order?

I love my Proline 13" Solid Aluminum "Silver Bells" Linking Rings. I originally ordered them in October 2016 and I received them in April 2017. I got a nine ring set with two cloth bags. Eight standard ring set and the ninth ring is a magnetic locking ring. Works like a dream. Sounds like a musical instrument and is light as a feather. Cliff had some problems with his welder and his seamstress along with other personal problems which caused the delays. I have to admit I was worried about getting them but now that I possess them there is no way I'm giving them up. They are works of art. Perfect in every way. I absolutely love them. Check out the sound tests YouTube. There is no comparison to the Owen's rings. Owens rings are heavy and clangy. While Proline rings are like true musical silver bells. No comparison.

I see some people are FINALLY receiving their order from Proline. I received yet another update from Proline stating I'd have my order by July 1st at the latest. I guess I should have asked, "In what year?"

I still haven't received my paid in full item from Prolies, I mean Proline.

What the heck is this guy doing with all his spare time? He's certainly not making products.

The Proline website looks like it's gone and the domain name is up for grabs. Too bad, I need a chain of 2 Proline rings and a single.

Here is the proline magic website. It is still there

http://www.proline-magic.net/products

You can also contact Cliff Wiggs on his Facebook Proline page

https://www.facebook.com/Proline-Magic

Or you can try his personal Facebook page

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1509333488

Sorry for Facebook proline page it should be


https://m.facebook.com/Proline-Magic-100507506776920/

Here is Cliff Wiggs' email address for Proline:

cewiggs@msn.com

He does respond to emails in a timely manner.

You will get your products from him but it will take many months and lots of emails for status BUT when you get your rings you will absolutely be thrilled. They are seriously the best rings on the market IMO. Perfect bell sounds, super light yet sturdy.

Hey Doc & Funnyclown! Thanks for your help!

I was promised my order would be completed by July 1st at the latest. I still haven't received my order which I paid in full for coming up on TWO YEARS AGO.

The only service I received from Proline is email service on supposedly when I will receive my product.

Do yourselves a favor, order from a reputable dealer. Proline isn't one of them.

I wanted to post to this thread because I have relevant data, but also to restore some balance and perspective to the discussion of Proline as a manufacturer of magic equipment.

There are many threads in the Café which discuss Proline going back to 2004. The overwhelming majority of these posts have been highly complimentary regarding the products, customer service, and personal responsiveness of the owner Cliff Wiggs. Here are a couple of older posts by respected members of our community:







I have had dealings with Cliff Wiggs on multiple occasions since early 2014 when I learned Cliff was producing ten inch rings. I ordered, and receceived a set of Proline rings in 2014, and a second order was placed this summer and delivered to me yesterday. I can confirm that Proline is still in business and filling orders. Cliff Wiggs can be reached at: cewiggs@msn.com. He does respond to emails.

Now, the good, the bad, and the ugly:

It is 100% true that there are excruciatingly long waits from placing an order to receiving delivery on your order. My first order took at least four months to arrive, and my recent order also took four months. However, the product did in fact arrive, as several other posters have also recently confirmed regarding their own orders on this thread.

Now to the quality of the product. Both orders of rings were of extremely high quality. The rings are very light yet rigid and handle beautifully. They are perfectly round, of consistent size, without visible welds or seams. And they do truly ring like a musical instrument. They are certainly the best rings I have had in my hands, and I have owned at least a dozen different sets. I have no direct experience with Owens or Porper rings, but I can tell you they blow the Auke van Dokkum rings out of the water (I own a set).

A great deal of the discussion on this thread surrounds a controversy regarding the quality (and relevance) of the sound of rings. One camp ascribes miraculous musical qualities to the Proline rings, touting their ringing like bells. The other camp seems to mock those that assign importance to how linking rings sound, arguing strenuously that the sonics of the rings is utterly irrelevant to the effectiveness of the performance.

I am afraid I must agree with the camp who believe that the sound of the rings has a GREAT DEAL to do with the effectiveness of the presentation. I also agree that the sound made by the Proline rings is exceedingly musical and pleasant; they do in fact sound exactly like bells. While I have no direct experience with the Owens rings, I have listened to almost eight hours of Levent jangling them on his 3-disc DVD set, and have watched/listened to these DVDs at least three times. So I feel I have a very good sense of how these two sets of rings compare sonically. The Owens rings are certainly not unpleasant sounding, but in comparison to the Prolines, the Owens rings "Clunk" and "Clank", albeit with a slight bit of resonance. By comparison, when you drop one Proline ring into another, they ring loudly, like a bell, and overtones are clearly still audible (if you don't cut them short with movement) 20 seconds later.

The most important observation I want to make is that the sound of the rings can be critical to the success of a linking ring performance. Poorly sounding rings can seem to corroborate the spectator's hypothesis that the rings have breaks in them. Case in point: I have never used my old Abbott featherweight rings in performance because they all sound when struck like the awful twanging of a key ring. More important, rings that sound like bells or wind chimes corroborate your assertion that the rings are solid metal without breaks or openings; in fact, a major theme in my own patter is that the sound of the rings is proof of their solidity. Therefore, I take every opportunity to fill the air with the sound of bells. The Proline rings are ideally suited to this type of presentation.

I belive the new Porper rings have similar sonic properties, which make them highly desirable for the same reasons the Prolines are desirable. Unfortunately, they are not manufactured in ten inch size, which is the only size I am comfortable handling.

My intention has been to provide a fair perspective on both the pros and cons related to purchasing a Proline product. I also wanted to let people know that these rings are still available, even if wait times are very long. I suspect that many have been discouraged by rumors that Proline is out of business, or that it is no longer possible to obtain these rings.

I sent Cliff an email 3 days ago and I'm still waiting for his answer.

Leo H -

I sent you a pm.

Owen's is great looking, light and durable, the sound is ok though.


Best,

I can definitely say if you want a durable and lightweight set of top notch professional rings that make the sound of a musical instrument not a “clang...clink” sound. But a resinating bell sound ... you must get the proline rings. But except to wait a few months to get them but trust me worth the wait.