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Bob G Inner circle 2830 Posts |
Hello Magicians,
I'm a beginner and am working on learning some card sleights, including controlling a card using an overhand shuffle. Based on Roberto Giobbi's advice in Card College I, and R. Paul Wilson's in his DVD accompaniment to The Royal Road, I've been curling my left little finger around the inner side of the deck, so that the cards I shuffle into my left hand, while resting lightly on my left palm, are stabilized by my index and little fingers. When I do a regular shuffle this seems to work well. The problem arises when I try to learn to do an injog shuffle. In a word, I can't. When I try to injog a card, it either falls between my findex and little fingers (in which case, of course, it isn't in jogged!) or I succeed in injogging the card and it rests against the tip of my little finger. But in the latter case, all the further cards that I shuffle off end up in a mess, and I can no longer find the injogged card. The injogged card acts as a sort of wall between my little finger and further cards that arrive in the left hand, so that my little finger is no longer able to help position the incoming cards. . Giobbi describes the curled little finger as an "antenna" that helps sense and control the position of the cards, but that isn't working for me. Harry Loyrane, in The Magic Book, doesn't advise curling the little finger around the inner side of the deck (at least that's my interpretation, partly based on one of his figures). So I've tried leaving my little finger at the face of the deck instead of curling it, but then I get the big mess described above. Can someone suggest how I can break through this obstacle and begin to learn the injog overhand shuffle? I feel that there's something I'm missing. I hope I've described my difficulty well enough that people will be able to follow me. Thanks for any help people can offer! Regards, Bob |
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Griff Loyal user Florida 285 Posts |
Hi Bob. When I do any kind of overhand shuffle I always straddle the deck with my left little and forefinger. The forefinger is at the top of the deck and the little finger is at the bottom. When I want to in jog a card I don't move my right hand backwards to accomplish it...instead I kick it back with my left thumb and then curl my left pinky upward to maintain the break. So you just have to push up with that left pinky finger to maintain control.
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Bob G Inner circle 2830 Posts |
Hi Griff, Thanks for your reply. I want to check and see if I'm visualzing correctly what you do. Am I right in thinking that after you've pushed the card inward with your left thumb and curled your left pinky, the left pinky is now in front of the injogged card? In other words, the pinky isn't covered by the injogged card but is covering the inner edge of the jogged card, ready to control future cards that will be shuffled into the left hand? (Whew! This is tough w/o pictures.)
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jaschris Loyal user 223 Posts |
I do not curl the pinky when doing a regular overhand shuffle. But when injogging a card in order to do the jog shuffle (i.e control top stock) I do hold the pad of the pinky against the injogged card. This ensures you never lose control of that injogged card. Also, it allows you to pick up on the ingogged card with your thumb and shuffle off. With a bit of practice using this method, it won't be long before you can do the jog shuffle without even looking at the cards.
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
The idea of allowing the left little finger to make contact with the face of the injogged card is an excellent one. I use it all of the time. It is also a very old idea. Its first publication in an English magic book appears to be Scot's Discoverie of Witchcraft (1584).
Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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NWJay Regular user 110 Posts |
Bob, I'm pretty new too and like you have been learning these basic skills over the last few months, so my advice isn't as based on experience as those above! However, the one thing that I do differently to you is that I *don't* use my pinky to stabilise the pack at all, but solely as the antenna for the injogged card. My index finger acts as my guide to the position where the outer edge of the pack should be shuffled to, and that is enough so that the cards fall in the right place. As you say, if the pinky is resting on the injogged card it can't find any behind it, but as long as the index finger is "managing" the rest I've found that's enough - the angle of your hand should be enough to ensure the cards can't slip out of it.
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
I'm finding it difficult to understand what you mean by 'all the further cards that I shuffle off end up in a mess, and I can no longer find the injogged card'?
This would be so much easier with photos! |
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
To begin with, ignore the left pinky altogether. Take right out of the way. Forget you even have a pinky.
Now shuffle the cards the way you would if you were going to play Go Fish. Just do a regular old overhand shuffle. Now, do the exact same thing, but injog a card and continue to shuffle off the rest of the cards. Practice picking up and shuffling off to the break. Master that. Do it 5000 times and make it as natural and open as your regular overhand shuffle. Master it. Then you can start messing around with your pinky. |
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MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3501 Posts |
Quote:
Practice picking up and shuffling off to the break. Master that. Do it 5000 times and make it as natural and open as your regular overhand shuffle. By then he will realize there is no need to get the pinky involved. |
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dgiancaspro Regular user New York City 122 Posts |
Bob,
I understand the problem you are describing and the advice to place your pinky on the face of the in jogged card is the solution. If you try and track the in jogged card by using your pinky on the edge of the card you will lose the in jog as other cards may be in jogged when they go above your card,which is the"mess you are describing. That mess can help hide the fact that there is a card out of place. Practice is of course the key to this, it takes time but you'll get there we all do. Tricks like Thought Stealer and Telepathy Plus, both from RRTCM are good tricks to practice overhand shuffle technique. Thought stealer is also in Card College. I also suggest you check out the Over Hand Shuffle practice routine in RRTCM (Page 11 in my PDF version) and work on it while you watch TV or on the phone.
"Mommy when I grow up I want to be a magician"
"Oh sweety you can't do both." |
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
One more thing : the injog can be very small if you just cut the card after the injog shuffle, but if you make a break and shuffle again, the injog need to be a little bigger. You can watch Steve Forte doing that, his jog is fairly large, 3/4 of an inch.
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
I've just mentioned the injog size because it seems to me your problem comes from that.
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SimonCard Special user 601 Posts |
I used to overhand shuffle without curling the pinky for a long time and it worked, then I learned how to shuffle with curling the pinky. It took some used-to but it turned our much better than the technique I used before.
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
If you make a short movie of what your problem is, it will be easier for us to help you.
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Personally I prefer using the pinky. And if Jason England thinks it a good idea, then I know I'm in the best possible company . Mr England had a teaching series called Foundations, I suspect the OHS is available to download in that series, in case you wanted more visual instructions from someone who obviously uses the pinky and is a master card worker - though I've no idea or not if he actually teaches an in jog control.
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Bob G Inner circle 2830 Posts |
Thanks, everybody, for all your ideas and encouragement. .
Rachmaninov, the idea of making a movie is a good one. I've never made one before -- of me doing cards, I mean -- so it will be an interesting challenge. I'll have more free time in a few weeks, and I'll try posting one. dgiancaspro, yes -- you articulated my difficulty better than I was able to. Maybe it's just a question of practice, but the "mess" I get is so messy that I can't find the originally injogged card. (I do understand, though, that a bit of messiness helps hide what's going on.) NWJay (and others who suggested dispensing with the pinky), I've been practicing what you suggested with a regular overhand shuffle. The idea of tilting slightly so that the cards would fall against the left forefinger worked well for me. Then I tried it with an injog, and it worked! I injogged the card and then was able to continue shuffling the remaining cards in such a way that the injogged card was easy to find. I still like the idea of learning this with the little finger curled around the bottom of the deck; right now it feels like an impediment; it gives me less control rather than more. Jason, several months ago I downloaded your video (from Theory 11??) on the overhand shuffle and enjoyed it. I'm going to watch it again. As we all know, this kind of technical stuff (I'm a mathematician, so I deal with this all the time) takes viewing and more viewing and then more viewing (or reading) to pick up nuances that one has missed during previous viewings. Many thanks to all of you! You've given me lots to think about and pursue. Best wishes, Bob |
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
Bob, your last paragraph is very true, in almost everything in which studying is important.
Trust the experts, the pinky must be at the inner end of the deck. It will feel completely natural very soon. As a mathematician, you're going to love studying card magic. There is a lot of mathematical beauties lying in those little pieces of cardboards. Some are fantastic. Brent Morris even made a generalization of a specific case of shuffling (perfect shuffle : the faro shuffle). It was for his Ph.D in maths. After that he has started to work for national agencies. I'm pretty sure that his works on cards has lead him toward the concept of hasard starting with a known order. And so the crypting of datas… |
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MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3501 Posts |
I don't object to Rachmoninov's advice but I do question his "Trust the experts" remark. One of the people cited as not using the pinky is Harry Lorayne. I'm sure there are many more. There may be advantages to the pinky method but the move certainly works fine without it.
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Does HL not use his pinky?
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, Terrible Wizard wrote: No. |
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