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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Glad you like me and think it's a good idea It makes a change around here, lol.
I disagree that it's 'fair' to criticize 'anything' on a public forum - and certainly disagree that that's "the whole point' of public forums" But I'm just being nit-picky for comic effect, lol This is hardly a key issue for this thread and I'm happy to just shrug and move-on here. More importantly ,though, can you explain a bit more about why the questions aren't going to result in tangible data? I would have thought asking people if they look up methods to tricks at least gives me data on whether or not they look up methods to tricks (whether that's useful data is a different question)? |
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Race Blakhart Special user Selma,CA 624 Posts |
To put it simply, there's no control.
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
In what sense?
I'm not great at this (obviously), so I'm going to need a bit more help than that If you mean that I can't tell whether the people responding are magi or not, I talked about this in a post above: The people I'm asking are (at present) by a huge majority laypeople, which I know because I'm physically going around asking them - the majority of people respond that way, not online via fbook etc (though some do, obviously). As I dealt with in a post above, I don't think that having a small number of magi respond affects the results negatively in any way since that might better reflect actual audiences anyway - even assuming that many magi respond online contrary to my instructions (which I think unlikely). In a future survey I'd agree that maybe filtering out magi responses would a way to improve it, but I don't think this lack of filtering totally invalidates the data - how many magi are likely to respond compared to laypeople? For example, the answer percentage distribution has hardly changed between when I knew for a fact that I only had laypeople results and the time now after it has been live on the café etc. If magi are answering then they are answering in the same way laypeople do. If you meant something else you'll have to explain, I'm confused |
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Bill08 Special user Montreal 719 Posts |
I think it's an interesting survey and I applaud Terrible Wizard for attempting to get some data on this.
My gut tells me that a lay audience just wants to be entertained. If you want more than this than you are, in effect, a magician, or already thinking like a magician - someone who seeks out methods because you have a deeper passion for what you just witnessed. But in general these types are a very very small minority, probably less than 1%. Most people are happy to see something mysterious, presented in a spirit of goodwill, and be entertained, and continue on with their normal lives. |
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Thank you for the kind post, Bill08 It's much appreciated.
What makes you think the people who wish to find out methods is less than 1% of a typical audience? Would you be surprised if my data didn't concur with that assessment? Are you interested in the results of my survey? |
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Bill08 Special user Montreal 719 Posts |
I mostly perform for children, and they are super curious, but even in these young groups only 10-20% stick around and press for answers after the trick is over. That's why I assume for adults the level of interest in the method is even lower,- but looking forward to see what you find!
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Ah, yes, I can easily imagine that you're right about young children. In my limited experience I concur, they are super curious (and lack the social awareness to politely refrain from asking), yet forget about it all very quickly . Agreed
However, my personal experience of teens and adults is very different. Regarding my survey findings, I'm happy to share with you since you inquired. It may surprise you as it surprised me. I'll send you the current results as a PM. Given the criticism I faced here, and the lack of expressed interest in the results, I didn't continue with it so the numbers reflect just what I obtained largely in the first two weeks - I haven't pursued it since then as no one seemed interested. I might, however, pick it up again in the future. |
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
How do we control for what the crowd has seen? What if the magic show they witnessed just wasn't that good, or was incredibly better than others they had seen? What if nothing amazed them enough for them to care about how it worked?
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” Said Carl Sagan. The charlatan, of course, does not want the victim to know it is a lie or to seek the truth but to “believe” his magik is true or might be. All art is a lie and all I to offer, my audience know it and they appreciate the art for their amusement and amazement. The con artist wants the victim to believe his lies are true or at least give him the benefit of the doubt. The con artists story will often contain some truth to give it plausible deniability. Often the charlatan will use no provable “trick” but simply claims to have an ability that science cannot explain. They are experts at interpreting babble, don’t you know? There are none so blind as them that will not see. My wife is one of them actually. She goes to see a charlatan once a month who speaks to her dead sister. “Many people can and do just file the experience away with other "inexplicable phenomena" in the "warm-fuzzy department." Just as Ken said.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Pop:
There is no control . I can't figure a way of doing that. But think about it in terms of the people who turn up to see you - you can't control who they are, whether they are the people who want to know how it's done, or if they are the kind to look it up online afterwards etc. The best I could do was by asking a fairly large, diverse number of 'ordinary' laypeople try to encapsulate the 'average' audience. Ithink, give the practical limitations, this was all I could do, and yet I still think it fairly legit (just like many other social and political surveys). Basically, I asked a few hundred people whether they searched out methods after seeing magic on TV or real life. Seems a fair enough basic study, at least a place to start from. |
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