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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I have never known one of my muggles go off and find the secret on the internet or anywhere else but have only seen them do what I actually said they do above. Mind you I put up a couple of videos merely to show my fellow card guys an idea without exposing but some idiot magician in the comments exposed the method. I think if you put something up on youtube, then you are asking for it, so to speak. There is certainly a lot of exposure there.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 23, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote: Exactly! And if they claim to have seen something remarkable, their listeners might want to ask if they were merely gullible, or did they check for all the obvious things that a good witness would? If the person who watched the magic show can't defend the story of what they witnessed without seeming like a credulous idiot, then the story probably will be dismissed and the storyteller laughed at. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Well yes, if you produce weak, feeble, tired, stale, or overly watered down magic with patter, then perhaps your audience would not be that interested in how it is done or tell a story about it.
Perhaps Ken and Chris ought to sharpen their senses, probe the depths of experience and awaken their childlike powers of questioning, to enjoy the dilemma of our magic.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 23, 2017, Pop Haydn wrote: You can't very well claim to have seen something remarkable without having to back it up. True.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I have never once seen anybody tell their story about the presentation much - their story has always essentially been about the magic. They seem to enjoy telling their story as much as seeing the act. The other day my sons pals came from our bar having seen a magician, telling me their story. Three or four of them at same time telling it, backing each other up. In the 60s we would call it a happening.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
It seems the majority here actually agree. Makes a refreshing change, lol . I really can't get my head around witchdoc's POV, but hey-ho. Maybe we just perform to very, very different people? Dunno.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
A Witch Doctor’s magic is seldom questioned - especially by the person he has pointed the bone at.
Ken could do with a visit from Gordon Ramsey.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 23, 2017, Terrible Wizard wrote: I generally appreciate Whit's input, but this is the worst statement he has ever made about magic" the circular reasoning is horrendous and the implication even worse. How dare you project your view onto humanity in general. People world wide have a right to enjoy magic without your permission. By your thinking this is a great quote, I have now lost any respect for any future post you may offer. I feel both of you should apologize to the magic community. I guess the two of you just don't get it. Magic happens in the mind of the observer, and you don't get to limit it, define, abuse it or belittle it. You can decide to limit your performance to your personal limitations, but don't try and kill magic for anyone else.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Doesn't that seem too strong a reaction, funsway? I took Whit's post as a hyperboic, but generally true, statement said in the context of an online discussion. Apologise to the whole magic community? Worst thing he's ever posted? Too strong, surely! And by saying I think a quote is great you can never have any respect for anything, anything at all, I ever post in future? Lol. That's mental.
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
I am sorry to offend, Funsway. I will cease interjecting my thoughts and killing magic.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I am confused by the reaction. Please do not include me in the "magic community" you speak for when demanding an apology from either one.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Blurring the boundaries of falsehood and reality in their patter and their magic to leave the victims in the "warm-fuzzy department" is a common practice of the charlatan.
“Many people can and do just file the experience away with other "inexplicable phenomena" in the "warm-fuzzy department." –Ken
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 24, 2017, Terrible Wizard wrote: Yeah - just keep focusing on those external reasons. It couldn't, ever, possibly, be the performer instead of the audience.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Well, it could be that some performers perform in such a way that no one in their audience ever wants to know how any of their effects were done - I agree, that's a possibility.
But I would consider that pretty uncommon (based on experience, survey results, and 'conventional wisdom'). I'm also not sure, especially based upon the above thread, that admitting that no one in your audience is ever curious about how you did a trick, is actually a positive thing. I'd probably consider such an eventuality as an indication that I'd in someway failed to perform decent magic. |
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Sure, I mean, I just did another weekend full of shows where people consistently come up to me saying they loved the show and were amazed by what they saw - but a thread on the internet says I'm no good so that's probably right.
Excuse me while I continue to prepare for the next weekend's shows.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Tommy Copper for example.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Witchdoc - so amazed by what they saw, but haven't got the slightest inclination to know how the effects were done? I'm gonna need proof of that.
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2017, Terrible Wizard wrote: I really, truly, cannot stress enough how little I care whether you agree with or believe me.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 22, 2017, Pop Haydn wrote: In the first half of this interview, Pop, you describe how people react to seeing several hard-hitting magic effects one after another. You were comparing this situation to Billy McComb's strategy of doing just one piece of hard-hitting magic at the end of the show, saying that the audience gets into a stunned state in which they will kind of believe you can do anything you say. You provided the example of a watch appearing in a wallet someone has been holding and their being so stunned they believe you have put their ring outside in a box in the glove compartment of your locked car. I think this stunned state in which the audience believes you might do anything is similar to what mentalists strive to achieve by maintaining believability. For many members of a mentalism audience, the effects (while meeting the criteria of magical impossibility or Arthur C. Clarke's "sufficiently advance technology") are real...mysterious, supernatural maybe. The magician has an assumed disclaimer at the core of the act; many mentalists want that claim to be ambiguous at the very least. Anyway, I am guessing these different approaches are the basis of some of the disagreement here.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 22, 2017, tommy wrote: At least three faculties are engaged in an experience of our magic: the logical mind which takes the impact of the Haydn Dilemma, the emotions/imagination which feel the wonder of the effect, and the trust which engages the performer behind the persona (and the assumptions or conventions of the performance type). These are really just Aristotle's rhetorical appeals applied to the magician rather than an orator: LOGOS, PATHOS, ETHOS. This breakdown may or may not dovetail nicely into the elements of performance well-known to all mystery artists: method (which delivers the strong impact), effect (display of plot and power), and presentation (character, setting, backstory, style, tone, etc.) I am not sure about this part. But certainly different branches of magic emphasize different elements, bizarre magic focusing on theater and story while mentalism focuses on believable effect (many mentalists will say method does not matter). Again, this analysis is debatable. However, the point is that a good mystery performer probably addresses all elements while focusing on one or a special combination.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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