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lou serrano Special user Los Angeles, CA 671 Posts |
I recently spoke and performed at a corporate conference in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, and I posted a video of my experience. If you read between the lines there are some salient business lessons worth considering especially if you're interested in adding speaking to your list of services that you offer to your clients.
For those of you who have an interest, click on the following link: https://www.louserrano.com/blog/adventur......a-canada If you have any questions regarding the content, feel free to ask. Respectfully, Lou Serrano |
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Ray Bertrand Inner circle Ottawa, Ontario 1452 Posts |
Hey Lou.
I loved your analogy about doing something you have never done before (fire eating). Great work. Thank you so much for sharing. Ray
Mentalism in Ontario.
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Loved the video Lou. Well Done.
Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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lou serrano Special user Los Angeles, CA 671 Posts |
Ray and Tom,
Thanks for taking the time to comment. On a side note, I wonder what others think in regards to whether or not they believe this gig was in the professional or consumer market (in my mind this is a professional market, although I never think about it when running my business), and if they believe there is a difference on how each market should be handled? There has been much talk in this forum regarding the two. It all has my head spinning. Partially because I treat my consumer level clients EXACTLY the same as I do my professional level clients. The only difference in the way that I sell my services is when it comes to the dollar amount. After a certain price point I change the way I sell. Otherwise everything else remains the same. The way I market my services remains the same. The only difference is the message. The way I handle the business aspects including payment remains the same (by the way, I don't let the client dictate when I get paid regardless of how they normally do things). I'm curious to know what others think. Lou Serrano |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Pass.
You have your answers, you just gave them to us. They work for you. They are correct.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 18, 2017, lou serrano wrote: Lou, You are not clear on how you change the way you sell after a certain price point and how those changes influenced this transaction. So take the following with a grain of salt. The company is a lower middle market b2b fleet services player based on published data (SEDAR) and user conference size. The tech industry has a tendency to hold out against formal infrastructures keeping them more aligned to the consumer/ small business buying habits longer. Based on this and your comments of not changing the way you selll, with the assumption the only change was price, I would hypothesize this is why you acquired this client. So without more details a better answer cannot be given. Personally, I wouldn't consider this corporate work, but I DO consider this A b2b transaction just down stream. I'll pm you my number and we can take this offline and I could better explain with more details if your interested. Walter |
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charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
I hope the conversation continues here as well. I appreciate Lou putting himself out there, by using his personal experience for broader discussion.
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lou serrano Special user Los Angeles, CA 671 Posts |
Hi Walter,
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'd definitely welcome a conversation with you as I'd love to get more of your insight. Let me clear up what I change about the selling process. With any event that is priced above $2500 I'll take the time to put together a customized video proposal with a customized landing page for the client. It doesn't matter if it's a birthday party or a corporate conference. If it's anything less than $2500, I'll either quote the price over the phone or in an email. The customized proposals take a bit of effort on my part, so the lower priced gigs don't warrant the extra effort. Question for you. If speaking and performing at a corporate conference is not corporate work, then what is it? I'd love for you to post the answer here, as I'm sure others would love to know as well. Please PM me with your number and the best time to contact you, and I look forward to our conversation. Thanks again, Lou |
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charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
This is one site I found helpful in sharing information about Professional vs Consumer markets. Much of this has been shared in TMC, but I think it is helpful to use reference points in our discussions. https://www.boundless.com/marketing/text......21-4828/
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
Lou,
Thanks for replying. If you see I acknowledged it was a business transaction but the reason I refrain from calling it corporate work is the companies position in the market. Many magicians erroneously call work corporate if they do a gig/sale to a business. Most businesses are not in the corporate channel. As I've said on other threads starting from down stream moving to up stream: it starts as a small business, then grows to middle market then on to commercial finally ending in corporate markets. The typical segmentation is by company revenue sales Small business < $10 million Middle market <$50 million Commercial is <$500 million Corporate is $500+ million As I've said M&A activities has consolidated much of the commercial and corporate markets so there is little differentiation anymore between the two. |
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lou serrano Special user Los Angeles, CA 671 Posts |
Walter,
As interesting as this may be to some, I fail to see how these terms matter to anyone like me who is booking gigs like these. I've read the other threads on corporate, professional, and consumer markets. How does applying these terms make a difference in how many of these gigs are booked, and how much one is getting paid? In other words, how does this terminology help increase one's business? Just to be clear, I have worked for companies that would be considered "corporate" under the examples you've shown. I still fail to see how this matters to the success of my business. In any case, I look forward to our discussion, and maybe I'll get a better understanding of all this. Thanks again for your time. Lou |
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charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
After reading posts here as well as the description I offered above, it would seem the terms Walter defines reveal differing levels of complexity in reaching the decision maker and differing expectations of what "good" looks like in terms of marketing, promotional materials, performance and brand recognition.
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Walter, as you know, many if not all, of the huge corporations are broken up into smaller branches and departments. My question is, aren’t theses smaller sub-companies still considered corporate? I think they are but want to be clear that you’re not saying the show must be for the actual parent company before it is considered corporate work?
Hope that makes sense, and thank you for clarifying. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 18, 2017, lou serrano wrote: Lou, Applying the terms allows for clear communication and transfering a set expectations regarding a subject. For example, lets say your marketing materials claim you work in the corporate market and your references are not in that stream but rather in the small business, credibility is lost and many times the sale. Furthermore, it may not change the bookings of the work you close downstream but it will shut upstream doors. Now moving on to pricing. Let' say you have done a holiday party for a retail branch of a Walmart, claiming working corporate is also misleading because of where your actual entry point is located. In this second example, your entry point is at the retail/small business/consumer channel and the decision maker has little authority over the corporation as a whole. The show/speaking topic may be the same but the purchasing strength of the buyer is different. By knowing your entry point, it's mindset, and pricing expectations you can better apply your pricing frameworks to maximize your return. I can give you a personal example, I have two friends still in banking, one is the managing director of a boutique middle market lender the other is a branch manager of a corporate bank (think BofA,Wells Fargo, chase, etc) now the signing authority is vastly different between the two. The CCO works for a smaller company than the branch manager but because of his placement he can single sign checks into the 6 figures. The branch manager can sign up to $1,000. So knowing the terms and understanding the corresponding associations will have a vastly different impact on your pocket book. Finally, how it matters to the success of your business is solely dependent on its applicability to your business model. But with respect to communicating on the forum it will improve dissemination of information and allow people to speak the same language. Business, medical, technical even magic has specific terms to convey a concept, we should use them in the business section like we would in a cardician section. I'd be hung if I tried to say I did faro shuffling when my actual handling was an overhand shuffle. When you call later today, we can talk a bit more in depth on how it directly influences your business. Walter |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Certainly the difference in working for a local Sprint store franchise summer family picnic and working for the meeting where every executive of the company is in attendance should be obvious.
In one case you didn't really work for "Sprint" as much as for the franchise owner. It is simply not the same thing. Not even close. The distinction may not be comfortable for those who have not seen it, but it is there. Approaching companies and not knowing the difference can cost jobs. It can be seen as no big deal. It can be seen as an honest mistake and they hire you anyhow. It can be seen as you not knowing and not understanding and not being ready. It can be seen as outright dishonest. Maybe it hurts maybe not. But it is sort of the difference in Ted talks and Ted-X talks. It matters to those who know. How it can impact you personally I have no idea. I hope it never does. In reality I have no way to quantify what can happen. We can guess at it but in reality it us tough to put reality to it. But for me personally I would rather know and act accordingly so the perception is correct. In reality the huge majority of performers can and do go through very successful careers never knowing, worrying about or being affected by the distinction. Would they be better if they knew? I have no idea.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 19, 2017, TomBoleware wrote: Tom, True commercial/Corporate can be broken up into various legal companies, divisions and channels. Where it matters is the entry point. I used an example with Lou. About two bankers one working retail for a corporate bank and the other middle market for a boutique bank. To say you worked corporate for the retail banker is misleading and wrong because you didn't work corporate, you worked a retail gig. And the sophistication levels are completely different. So the easiest way I can think of for you to understand is to start with the size of the company and see where it fits. Then to know where in the company you are entering. Is it at a storefront, a distribution, division office, parent office. Then after knowing where you enter the company, how much influence does your buyer have over the company as a whole? In other words where do they sit in the corporate hierarchical structure? Answers to these questions will tell you if you are working more a small business/retail/consumer or middle market or commercial/corporate gig. |
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 19, 2017, charliecheckers wrote: Exactly! Thank you Charlie. |
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lou serrano Special user Los Angeles, CA 671 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 19, 2017, WDavis wrote: Let me put this into perspective. I worked with Belkin International Inc. for about 8 years. Belkin does over $1 Billion in revenue. They hired me to do everything from national sales meetings and trade shows to their company and department holiday parties. My pricing wasn't dependent on who I was talking to in the company. It was dependent on the services I was providing regardless of who was making the final decision on hiring me. I've also worked for local branches of companies such as Costco. My pricing and marketing didn't change. I charged for the services I was providing. In many cases, regardless of whether they fall into the small business category or the corporate category, the client says it's a corporate gig. Why would I disagree with them? Almost all of my marketing is "attraction" marketing. Prospects, customers, and clients call me when they're in need of my services. My marketing attracts consumer markets and professional markets. I enjoy working in all these different markets. I do everything from high school grad nights to corporate trade shows. Once I have a customer my goal is to turn them into a long term client, and the way I do that is to develop and solidify a relationship with my client. My main contact at Belkin has since moved on to several other companies throughout the years, but she has hired me to work for every company she has worked for since then, and most of these companies have not been anywhere near as big as Belkin, but she still calls it corporate. The reason I've worked for her for the last 18 years is because of the relationship we've developed. I agree that clear communication is vital in setting and delivering on expectations, but I don't see how this terminology helps in any way. I'm sure it matters in the banking industry when trying to secure a loan, but I don't see it as a magician and speaker, because I'm going to deliver my product to the best of my ability regardless of the terminology. As for communicating here on this forum, I believe these distinctions only add confusion. Imagine if instead of saying that a magician is a "corporate magician" we had to say they are a "middle market magician" or a "commercial magician". When in reality most corporate magicians either cover the entire gamut of businesses or are aspiring to do so. I'll call within the next couple of hours, and maybe that discussion will shed light on all of this. Respectfully, Lou Serrano |
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lou serrano Special user Los Angeles, CA 671 Posts |
So I just got off the phone with WDavis, and I thought I'd give you all an update. We had an almost two-hour conversation, and we covered a lot of ground. Much too much information to share in this thread. I found our conversation to be enlightening, inspiring, and educational. Walter comes across as a genuinely likable person who really wants to help others. He's also a very smart guy. I took about 5 pages worth of notes, and will be implementing some of his ideas immediately.
I appreciate his effort in trying to clear up the differences in terminology, and unless you're trying to generate business in the high-end corporate world, it won't make much of a difference to you. On the other hand, if you're looking to make a living in the mid six-figure per year range, this can be highly useful. I think a lot gets lost in the written word when trying to explain these concepts, especially when it comes to intent. If everyone adapted the same terminology, it might be easier to communicate, but we have to remember that the Café welcomes all members from people just starting out in this business to seasoned pros and family entertainers to those who are fully entrenched in the corporate market. His way of generating business is much different than the way I generate business, and in a perfect world, I'd run my business in the manner that he does. As I progress in my career, I can see how adopting his way will take me much further. For now my systems are generating a ton of business, but I'm always a student of business and marketing. I'm still learning and growing, and I'll slowly implement his strategies and see how it works out. I also appreciate the respect Walter shows our fellow Café members even when he disagrees with them. I wish more people would do the same. I know I've sung this tune before, but respect goes a long way in making the Café a much more productive environment for newbies and seasoned pros alike to learn and grow. Respectfully, Lou Serrano |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Thanks Lou. Glad it went well.
And I agree Walter is a respectable likeable person. I love reading his posts even if they do sometimes make me scratch my head. Walter, thank you for posting here. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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