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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts 
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On Jun 18, 2017, landmark wrote: It's not at all any such admission. In fact, it's quite the opposite.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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The problem of induction is a limitation of knowledge, not of truth.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Lobo that sounds interesting, please give a simple example of that sort of thing.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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On Jun 17, 2017, tommy wrote: I'm just listening and learning. |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 188 Posts
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On Jun 18, 2017, tommy wrote: What "supernatural forces" are you referring to? And what convinced you that they exist? Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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My innate intelligence.
Behold the killing of two birds with one stone.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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On Jun 17, 2017, landmark wrote: Missed this quip first time through. Most excellent, landmark!
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
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Thanks.
Morality/God/truth/knowledge/induction/knowing/perception/existence/human: lots of opportunity for slippage and slipperiness there. I plead guilty (somewhat out of contrariness). Just to clarify my general position about everything in the world  : I guess I'm some kind of phenomenologist. There's stuff out there, but humans certainly cannot access it. We mediate through our senses, but our apparatuses are not the same. Hence the need to act through some kind of consensus. The elephant in the room is the elephant in the room and we can't really say whether we are touching the tail, if that's what it is, because we can only describe through metaphor. To speak of "absolute truth" is fairly dicey because I don't think we have access to what the world "really" is. We can't know or understand it anymore than we can know or understand God.
So local truths, mediated by conversation to share points of view.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts
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Sooooooo, we're screwed?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
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I think we humans do remarkably well, considering.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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slowkneenuh Regular user After 5,278+ posts, only credited with 133 Posts
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Not to worry. "There may be billions of habitable planets in the Milky Way, which is itself just one of billions of galaxies."
John
"A poor workman always blames his tools" |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On Jun 19, 2017, landmark wrote: I suspect that you and I may be close in our beliefs if not spot-on, but I may be mistaken. If that's the case (and it may not be), then I think your use of the word "truth" or the phrase "absolute truth" (which IMO is redundant) conflates things a bit. I would liken it to the following analogy (with respect to certain 'big truths'): Two ants are looking up at two skyscrapers that differ in height by a few inches. The first ant claims that building A is taller (these are REALLY smart ants), and the second hand claims that building B is taller. There is only one truth. One of the buildings is taller than the other. One of the ants is wrong, and the other is right. The only "truth" is which building is taller. What you would call "local perceptions" (I believe) does not have any effect on "truth." It affects knowledge and perception. Or, perhaps more accurately, limitations on perception affect knowledge. But the fact that the ants do not know, and can never know, which building is actually taller doesn't change the truth. Having said that, if the ants said, "Building A seems taller to me," and "Building B seems taller to me," then we would have a different situation, one in which both ants were correct. But notice that in this case we would have entirely different claims - claims about the ants' perceptions, not about the height of the building. It may be 100% true that one of the ants perceives Building B is being taller, but that truth has no bearing on the truth that Building A is actually taller.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts
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On Jun 19, 2017, landmark wrote: How about the long run?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 19, 2017, NYCTwister wrote: The mortality rate is 100%.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
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Quote:
But the fact that the ants do not know, and can never know, which building is actually taller doesn't change the truth. I don't have a thought out epistemology, but I try to understand and form my ideas in conversation as these. So here's what that comment makes me think about: Each person only perceives a subset of what is out there and forms a story; dogs hear different music from us. But you might claim isn't the summation of all subsets equivalent to "the truth"? I don't think so. There can be infinite subsets of an infinite set, all quite different. Evens, odds, do they know of each other?
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts
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On Jun 19, 2017, landmark wrote: For now.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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They can both be taller than one another.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 19, 2017, landmark wrote: If the subsets are perceptions, the summation of all subsets cannot be equivalent to "the truth" for a more fundamental reason: Not all perceptions are accurate.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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On Jun 19, 2017, LobowolfXXX wrote: I can nod along till the word "actually" - which is where some kind of magic is presumed to happen in the narrative.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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If anything, it's merely redundant.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Posted: Jun 19, 2017 03:41 am 
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