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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » I want to see the manager! » » Latest and greatest conjecture (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

IAIN
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Eternal Order
england
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Seems to me that too many users are a little too free and easy with what they reveal. And a few times, end up revealing how something works completely, or inadvertently reveals how a similar product works.

I know we can report these issues, however - overall maybe we can tighten the rules instead? Saves the reporting, saves admin time too.

A lot of methods get named fully, techniques and methods...maybe latest and greatest could just be about the pros and cons of the routine itself (as in timing of routine, application of technique and so on)...
Dave Scribner
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Assistant Manager
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
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The rules for the latest and greatest forum are pretty specific. A member can post his or her opinion about an effect as long as it is just that, an opinion. It's one thing to say "I believe the effect is accomplished using magnets" but quite another to say "I have this effect and it's accomplished using magnets" The first is an opinion or assumption even if it is correct, while the second is a definite exposure.
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IAIN
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Eternal Order
england
16050 Posts

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For me, there's little difference, and it's still exposure - whether accidental or deliberate...
Dave Scribner
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Assistant Manager
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
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One is a discussion on possibilities and the other is a statement of fact. That's the difference
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IAIN
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Eternal Order
england
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I feel that's semantics really, the outcome is (to the creator if no one else) that someone has just exposed their latest creation for free...

Asking or guessing about angles, handlings etc - all fine, but blatantly naming things seems clumsy and uneeded in my opinion...

L&G should focus more on poor advertising and more useful things than simply "hows it done"...
IAIN
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Eternal Order
england
16050 Posts

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In the mental Pen thread there, tariff flash made the point that most dealers will talk method if you call or email...
Dave Scribner
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Assistant Manager
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
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He's probably correct however that has no bearing on what we allow or don't allow on the Café.

It's not semantics. If I don't know how effect A is done and someone posts "I think this could be done moving a magnet" there is no exposure because the post has not told me how the effect is done. Merely an opinion on how it could be done.

If that poster says "I own this effect and it's done by moving a magnet" that is exposer because it has just told me how the effect is done. Again, one is speculation which is what the forum is for while the other is definite exposure on the method.
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IAIN
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Eternal Order
england
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I think the rules were fine back when they were first written...however, secret hunters and the whole way people interact and post online has changed quite considerably... you can find links to the café on various (non magic) discussion forums where people have been discussing how various tv magicians and mentalists have done their act...

whether you mean to reveal it, or you accidentally done so, its still revealed...maybe change the title to "take a guess at the method!"

I guess I'm just asking for a refinement?
discuss/guess at angle sensitivity
pocket management
inspectability
that kind of thing...
Dave Scribner
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Assistant Manager
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
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Ultimately any changes to Café content in regards to forums are up to Steve. I'm sure the title could be changed to take a guess but that wouldn't solve your issue. The same posts would simply be placed there so if it were exposure under latest and greatest, it would be exposure under Take a guess. Many of the reports of exposure come from members who already know the secret.

Let's say a product is being discussed that actually uses magnets and someone who doesn't know the secret reads a post that says "this could possibly be done using magnets" The next post says this could be done using Velcro. Would he know how the effect is done at this point? The answer is no so no exposure leading to the method has been made. But to someone who already knows the secret, it could seem like exposure.

Regardless of what we call the forum or tighten the rules, we will still have the same speculation posts being made and all we can do is react after the fact which could lead to some degree of exposure.
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IAIN
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Eternal Order
england
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I know, I was just joking with "take a guess"...

all I'll say is (and then leave it be)

the world is faster and more nosey than it ever was, and will continue to gather pace...
exposure channels on youtube do search through magic forums
creators still want to create and keep the method secret, because that is still a major part of the whole experience
I think forums do need to change too
there's so much you can find out via google from this place
if about half a dozen people guess at magnets for a trick - then people who don't like magnets will be put off, possibly wont buy it - however, the trick itself might use magnets in a unique and different way, and that soft exposure hits sales
out of interest - how do moderators verify if a user does or doesn't know the secret?
I think we still need to protect our methods and techniques, even the naming of them to a degree - especially when latest and greatest has changed a little, despite the same rules - now we have people from the bigger companies making announcements nearly every day, yet the rules do say "Finally, those individuals who come to this forum expecting to receive free advertising, think again. Obvious commercial posts (e.g, Now taking pre-orders, Our new product will ship on..."
Dave Scribner
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Assistant Manager
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
4890 Posts

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Quote:
out of interest - how do moderators verify if a user does or doesn't know the secret?


If he says he doesn't own it or makes posts as a possibility, we have to assume doesn't own it and is just speculating.
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