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Harry Lorayne
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Yes, could be! For Christ's sake.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
MySurvive
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Have at it, Harry! Authoritarians all across the globe have been trying to do the same thing for centuries, but I have faith in you.
SimonCard
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Side question: are all US public libraries free to rent books from?
My university library is free, but I paid the tuition and there is zero magic books in it.
MySurvive
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Yes, you can get a library card from any public library for free. I think there is a small fee if you return a book late (it's like 10 cents or something).
Harry Lorayne
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What "same thing" are you talking about? While I wait for your deeply knowledgeable reply...I know this will not be important to you nor to many others, but...
When I started to write magic books (I sure wasn't getting the many thousands of dollar advances that I did for my memory training books for the public)- if I thought those books, written specifically for magicians (except for The Magic Book)would be in libraries around the world I would not have written them.

My The Magic Book is really the only one of my books on magic that I see in libraries, and that's okay - because I did get the kind of advance mentioned above. My depression upbringing, I guess. Repeat - I know that's not important to you or many others - but thought I'd mention it.
And I KNOW you'll "have at it" with another "font of knowledge" so we will all breathlessly await.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
MySurvive
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Quote:
On Jul 5, 2017, Harry Lorayne wrote:
What "same thing" are you talking about? While I wait for your deeply knowledgeable reply...I know this will not be important to you nor to many others, but...
When I started to write magic books (I sure wasn't getting the many thousands of dollar advances that I did for my memory training books for the public)- if I thought those books, written specifically for magicians (except for The Magic Book)would be in libraries around the world I would not have written them.

My The Magic Book is really the only one of my books on magic that I see in libraries, and that's okay - because I did get the kind of advance mentioned above. My depression upbringing, I guess. Repeat - I know that's not important to you or many others - but thought I'd mention it.
And I KNOW you'll "have at it" with another "font of knowledge" so we will all breathlessly await.

I totally understand where you're coming from, don't get me wrong... I also very much respect your magic and your upbringing. That does not mean that I cannot disagree with you. Also, I have never claimed to be deeply knowledgeable. However, technology will never stop. Do you bend or break? You cannot make everyone stop making YT tutorials, so how do you adapt?
PigCakeFan1337
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If a layperson has the ambition to go to a library to get one of your books, Mister Lorayne, he is probably becoming a magician soon. No layperson sees an ACR and thinks "Hey, that was cool. I want to know how he does that." and goes to the library to get one of your books. (and I think no layperson would look it up on youtube either)
Harry Lorayne
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MySurvive: Of course you can disagree with me - just as I can disagree with you. No argument there. And of course we can't (unfortunately) stop those tutorials, but that doesn't mean I can't give my opinion of them when the subject comes up. I certainly rarely bring up the subject (unless I see a ripoff of one of my items "tutorialed" terribly).
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
bidbid
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This last 2 pages of the thread are full of controversy, let me just give my 2 cents.
If you care so badly for the "tricks" I do not think you are a great magician.
Magic is about so much more than the "secrets" . A good magic performance evokes the
sense of the mysterious, and let me remember the famous Einstein's quote: "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."
It is only normal that a spectator wants to know the secrets of something after seeing a good magician.
And it is only normal that somebody exposes them, for free and easy access even.
But those are only tricks.
If you only thing as magic as raw entertainment based on "puzzles" then sure get mad at exposers.
But a real magician, someone who studied the masters, (Tamariz, Ascanio etc) shouldn't care AT ALL about exposing,
because the real secrets of magic are not those, the real secrets of the art are theoretical, they are in books like Tamariz's "the magic way",
but if tomorrow Tamariz decides to put his masterful theoretical work on youtube for free as an audiobook would it be a problem? NO.
Do I appreciate a painting less because I know the technique the artist used?
But aside from that. Give me a spectator that has seen several youtube tutorials on the ambitious card for example, and let's say he is a jerk who only wants the other spectators to see he knows the tricks. I'll make him amazed anyway. He knows the double lift? I studied magic deeply enough to know double lifts too deceptive from him. He knows the bent card phase? I'll use another phase like a "card rises in the box phase" . What I'm trying to say is that exposure is fine (unless tricks are copyright protected but as with any art form piracy exists), and it makes us as magicians strive to improve what we know to make sure we deliver the experience of the mysterious. Magic would be so bland without common knowledge of the basic "tricks" , every magician would be doing the same boring and bad tricks. The fact that tricks are exposed just makes us improve as magicians. Penn and teller often exposed tricks on television for example, because they of course get what I'm saying.
Even if one day ALL magic's greatest secrets (theoretical and methodological) would be available on youtube, would that destroy the art? NO. If someone takes the years necessary to learn and understand those secrets (and very few people would want to), then he will become a magician, a great magician that will love the art.
But as long as a spectator has just seen some tutorial on youtube, it will just make it easier for a good magician to amaze them, because he will use methods and techniques that will create effects that feel
just more impossible to who things knows the "real secrets".
That's all I can think about this argument right now.
Sorry for the bad english.
Peace.
Harry Lorayne
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Wonder if you'd feel the same if it was YOUR ideas, from your books that you want to sell. Glad to get your opinion, but sorry, in my opinion your opinion is wrong!
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
SimonCard
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You are basically implying Harry Lorayne , Rickey jay, Steve Draun are not real magicians. And they all studied with masters and they themselves are the masters. These are the ones I know that expressed their concerns over exposures . I believe There are many many more .
bidbid
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Quote:
On Jul 5, 2017, Harry Lorayne wrote:
Wonder if you'd feel the same if it was YOUR ideas, from your books that you want to sell. Glad to get your opinion, but sorry, in my opinion your opinion is wrong!

I consider exposure of copyrighted material completely wrong, I am talking about tricks that are not from copyrighted books, I said that in my message.
Harry Lorayne
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Most of the tutorials are of items from books - and most, if not all, books are copyrighted. I'm not referring to really old books that are "out of copyright." All my books are copyrighted. And, believe me, those "tutorialists" don't give a darn about copyrights. Crooks don't care.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
bidbid
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Quote:
On Jul 5, 2017, SimonCard wrote:
You are basically implying Harry Lorayne , Rickey jay, Steve Draun are not real magicians. And they all studied with masters and they themselves are the masters. These are the ones I know that expressed their concerns over exposures . I believe There are many many more .

No, I am sure that if they perform for someone that has seen magic tutorials on youtube they will just amaze them more as real magicians that don't only care about the method do.
Probably their concerns are over copyrighted material, and as I said I agree with them on that matter.
bidbid
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Quote:
On Jul 5, 2017, Wondermouse wrote:
Here is the other side of the story from Orson Welles. I believe the position stated is just as valid now as it was in 1947. I suspect he is rolling in his grave at the way magic is exposed to all and sundry nowadays.

http://www.wellesnet.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=308

Is it as valid today? Nowadays with the internet the basic secrets of magic are widely available, but the possibility of instant
communication anywhere in the world made it possible for good magicians to rethink and refine their art SO MUCH.
as Welles says in the article "A real magician's task, it seems clear, is to abolish the solution, the possibility of any solution in the minds of those he seeks to amuse". I say that a good magician thanks to today's knowledge can do that so so easily.
Who can't seem to "abolish the possibility of any solution" I feel are the magicians who don't study enough to be ahead of a spectator that knows the dobule lift or what not.
bidbid
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Quote:
On Jul 5, 2017, Harry Lorayne wrote:
Most of the tutorials are of items from books - and most, if not all, books are copyrighted. I'm not referring to really old books that are "out of copyright." All my books are copyrighted. And, believe me, those "tutorialists" don't give a darn about copyrights. Crooks don't care.

Mr Lorayne, I understand and I think it's right for you to defend your material.
but I do not think is true that most tutorials are of copyrighted material, if you search "magic trick tutorial" on youtube you will see that all the most popoular videos are just exposing applications of basic sleights like a coin vanish or a double lift.
There are indeed tutorials of copyrighted material but certainly laymen don't watch those, for they would need to search for very specific things like the name of the magician and of the trick they want exposed. Who watches those videos are indeed wannabe magicians that don't care about morals, but as much as I agree that is completely wrong to expose copyrighted material, I also think that these guys are so lazy that they would never put in the effort to buy and read yours or anybody else's books and study the routines. They are just very very bad wannabe magicians, that indeed make the magic community look bad to other people, but I find that when I perform for a public that has ever only seen disgraceful and umprepared performers, it is just easier to win them over if you are prepared and do real good magic.
magicfish
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Quote:
On Jul 5, 2017, MySurvive wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 5, 2017, magicfish wrote:
Youtube "tutorials" are exposures. Period. And most of the time, these thieves are exposing others' pet effects without permission.
Horrific.

There's actually a huge movement in the YT Magic community about crediting.

Crediting is important on performance only videos. Exposure nullifies all attempts at giving any credit to anyone.
magicfish
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Quote:
On Jul 5, 2017, bidbid wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 5, 2017, Harry Lorayne wrote:
Most of the tutorials are of items from books - and most, if not all, books are copyrighted. I'm not referring to really old books that are "out of copyright." All my books are copyrighted. And, believe me, those "tutorialists" don't give a darn about copyrights. Crooks don't care.

Mr Lorayne, I understand and I think it's right for you to defend your material.
but I do not think is true that most tutorials are of copyrighted material, if you search "magic trick tutorial" on youtube you will see that all the most popoular videos are just exposing applications of basic sleights like a coin vanish or a double lift.
There are indeed tutorials of copyrighted material but certainly laymen don't watch those, for they would need to search for very specific things like the name of the magician and of the trick they want exposed. Who watches those videos are indeed wannabe magicians that don't care about morals, but as much as I agree that is completely wrong to expose copyrighted material, I also think that these guys are so lazy that they would never put in the effort to buy and read yours or anybody else's books and study the routines. They are just very very bad wannabe magicians, that indeed make the magic community look bad to other people, but I find that when I perform for a public that has ever only seen disgraceful and umprepared performers, it is just easier to win them over if you are prepared and do real good magic.

Exposing a coin vanish or a DL on youtube is reprehensible.
bidbid
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Why?
lynnef
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In doing basic magic research online, I get (unwanted) links to tutorial exposures not just of sleights but of tricks that I know were creations of eg Darwin Ortiz (who, for one, has been a victim of online piracy of his books). I will not go there, nor should any of us. It's not innocent! It's taking someone's property without permission! Even if the exposer does not profit, it's akin to grabbing someone's wallet and throwing the money to the wind. Let's have respect for magicians who've invested so much time, energy, and skills to give us these creations; and perhaps we will be paid back in kind. Lynn
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