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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Tamariz or Redford (13 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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shakuni
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Hi,

After checking the Redford stack, I strongly feel that its better then Tamariz stack (Mnemonica). What do you think?

Thanks.
Daren
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Agreed!
Ben Blau
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Redford Stack is a literal machine. It does so many things. I can't think of any reason not to use it if you're still on the fence about which memstack to learn.
AntonF
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Just compare both books.... in Mnemonica there are tons of information that includes contributions from a lot of magicians, techniques, ideas. Thousands of magicians around the world uses it such as Pit Hartling, Asi Wind, David Blaine... it has been traduced to a lot of languages, you can combine it with others stacks, for example with Woody's stack... inside the book there are real modern classics (Mnemonicosis...). Without any doubt, Redford's book it is great, but Mnemonica its better by far.
[...] The passion culminates in the professional. He would rather play than eat. Winning is not his sole delight.[...] there is but one pleasure in life better than winning, that is, in making the hazard...
shakuni
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Sure, but my question is about the stack not the books. Thanks.
Bobby Forbes
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Personally I've used a few different memorized stacks over the years. I've now switched to the Redford stack and I'm staying with this one. I was a mnemonica user primarily for the last few years and have explored the entire book and then some. No doubt about it, mnemonica is absolutely fantastic! To me, the Redford stack is so easy to get into from a new deck or even a shuffled deck its not even a question. Also has some built in qualities you cant pass up! Another thing is this is just the first book on the Redford stack. I know of 2 more books coming in the future that explore this great stack even more. Plus, Patrick even has a facebook group dedicated to this stack that has performances and explanations of nearly everything in the book. Many people in the group has come up with some amazing ideas and concepts using this. It doesn't stop with the book man. The facebook page has updates and tips and tricks using this stack nearly daily. Great perk of using the Redford stack is all the extra advice and help you get along the way with the Facebook group. Patrick is also very active in this group and answers any question or addresses any problem you may have. Great stack man! Oh, also forgot to mention you don't even need to have the stack memorized to set it up. You can set this up once you know the "formula" and practice it without having a crib sheet in front of you. Also you don't even need to have it memorized to be able to use some of the best routines that are taught. Cant go wrong. Just put it into stack and your able to do some awesome stuff. So no matter how long it takes you to memorize it, you'll still benefit from knowing "how" to put it into stack.
Pasteboard Alchemist
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I've used Mnemonica religiously for the last decade. I've put in so much work with Mnemonica... memorizing the quartets; figuring out the plop technique for various setups, sussing out all various ways to get to good Hold'em setups, working up many situations for Behr's "finding the way home" principle, worked up routines to get to NDO, and so much more... I've put a lot of my life into it.

Having said that, I got the Redford stack committed to memory and up to a performance-acceptable level of recall speed (read: instantaneous) and I'm now 100% switched over to the Redford stack. It was a tough decision, given all the work I've put into Mnemonica--not to mention the fact that nearly everyone I know uses Mnemonica. But the benefits of the Redford stack are simply too great to pass up.

There had always been a few "holy grail" things I wished Mnemonica could do that I was trying hard to figure out. To name a few: more streamlined way to get back to NDO, quick way to non-sequential/pattern red black alternating, quick way to get to memorize stay stack (either the first or second half still in stack, and the other half mirroring it), better way to get into stack from a borrowed shuffled deck without dealing or faros (as sometimes I've given a waterlogged old bar deck), among others. Well, the Redford stack has all that baked in.

Given the fact that I can do all my favorite effects from Mnemonica (like Mnemonicosis) with any stack, It made good sense to move to one loaded with utility features that I'd always wanted. This doesn't even take into account the built-in effects the stack has, which are many and pretty dang excellent (they're available on video in other threads, so I won't belabor that point here.)
Patrick Redford
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Mnemonica (the book) is a must read. Hands down. The routines and techniques inside that Juan goes over are truly invaluable and a master class on the memorized deck. Anyone serious about this kind of work would be a fool not to read, digest, learn and take diligent notes on its work. The same can be said about any of the memorized deck work that Simon Aronson has put in print. To me, it's not a case of "this or that" but when it comes to which stack you choose to use - choose the one that's going to do the work you want it to do. Most work can be converted to any stack (Mnemonica and Redford having quite a bit of cross over in versatility as of the features built into Redford stack) so don't stop learning from as many sources as you can get your brain on!

I'm truly humbled by the memorized deck community embracing my stack and feeling so strongly about it enough to have some folks even switching over after many years committed to other stacks. It really is one of the the highest compliments!
AntonF
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Quote:
On Jun 26, 2017, Patrick Redford wrote:
Mnemonica (the book) is a must read. Hands down. The routines and techniques inside that Juan goes over are truly invaluable and a master class on the memorized deck. Anyone serious about this kind of work would be a fool not to read, digest, learn and take diligent notes on its work. The same can be said about any of the memorized deck work that Simon Aronson has put in print. To me, it's not a case of "this or that" but when it comes to which stack you choose to use - choose the one that's going to do the work you want it to do. Most work can be converted to any stack (Mnemonica and Redford having quite a bit of cross over in versatility as of the features built into Redford stack) so don't stop learning from as many sources as you can get your brain on!

I'm truly humbled by the memorized deck community embracing my stack and feeling so strongly about it enough to have some folks even switching over after many years committed to other stacks. It really is one of the the highest compliments!


Imho you are completely right, and of course your book is great. Some of the ideas are incredible. For me (I am not an expert at all), I liked the idea of get ready for another tricks from another magicians. I think it opens a new door in stack systems. I haven't read it on others stack deck books, and it is amazing. And its cool you do not need to memorize the order to get in to it. I am going to use your stack for one of my favourite tricks: Pit Hartling's poker formulas. Thanks for your work, Patrick.
[...] The passion culminates in the professional. He would rather play than eat. Winning is not his sole delight.[...] there is but one pleasure in life better than winning, that is, in making the hazard...
Patrick Redford
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The Poker formulas work well! I posted a pdf of the proper formulas to do that effect in the Facebook group[. If you're not already a part of it, please join us!
AntonF
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Quote:
On Jun 26, 2017, Patrick Redford wrote:
The Poker formulas work well! I posted a pdf of the proper formulas to do that effect in the Facebook group[. If you're not already a part of it, please join us!


Thanks Patrick, but Ill do it in another way. I have the Martin Eisele app, and is possible to customize for any deck. I have it for Mnemonica, Aronson and Woody, and now Ill use it with Redfords.
[...] The passion culminates in the professional. He would rather play than eat. Winning is not his sole delight.[...] there is but one pleasure in life better than winning, that is, in making the hazard...
Amilkar
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Dear friends,

Between others I use also the Ferragut stack. It is intuitive, has a lot of properties and you can perform different kind of tricks. This is my alternative to Tamariz stack.
Very few people knows Ferragut's stack, including spanish young guys, and this is an advantage for all those that are using actually.

Sincerely,

F. Amílcar Riega I Bello.
AntonF
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Quote:
On Jun 27, 2017, Amilkar wrote:
Dear friends,

Between others I use also the Ferragut stack. It is intuitive, has a lot of properties and you can perform different kind of tricks. This is my alternative to Tamariz stack.
Very few people knows Ferragut's stack, including spanish young guys, and this is an advantage for all those that are using actually.

Sincerely,

F. Amílcar Riega I Bello.


Amilcar, where can we get Ferragut's Mnemónica Intuitiva?
[...] The passion culminates in the professional. He would rather play than eat. Winning is not his sole delight.[...] there is but one pleasure in life better than winning, that is, in making the hazard...
Amilkar
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Dear Sir,

You can found in the E.M.M. Circular and also in a little booklets published by the author in spanish language.

Yes, I know. It is difficult to find but you can prove with some spanish friend. Antonio Ferragut passed away 2 years ago and there is no trace of his publications for sale.

Sorry, but that's all for the moment.

Sincerely,


F. Amílcar Riega I Bello.
FalseDeal
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Redford has much to offer, as does Mnemonica and Aronson. There is no best, there is only learning from multiple sources along the way to combine ideas. Learn and study both. I memorised Stebbins' stack about 20 years ago and it remains my go to, but I incorporate ideas from Tamariz, Joyal, Aronson, Close, Redford, Chapman, Watson and others.
Apotheosis
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Quote:
On Jun 26, 2017, Pasteboard Alchemist wrote:
I've used Mnemonica religiously for the last decade. I've put in so much work with Mnemonica... memorizing the quartets; figuring out the plop technique for various setups, sussing out all various ways to get to good Hold'em setups, working up many situations for Behr's "finding the way home" principle, worked up routines to get to NDO, and so much more... I've put a lot of my life into it.

Having said that, I got the Redford stack committed to memory and up to a performance-acceptable level of recall speed (read: instantaneous) and I'm now 100% switched over to the Redford stack. It was a tough decision, given all the work I've put into Mnemonica--not to mention the fact that nearly everyone I know uses Mnemonica. But the benefits of the Redford stack are simply too great to pass up.



Anyone else switch over from another stack? I've just got Mnemonica down and am hesitant to try learning a new stack.
Tim Cavendish
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Quote:
On Jul 5, 2017, FalseDeal wrote:
Redford has much to offer, as does Mnemonica and Aronson. There is no best, there is only learning from multiple sources along the way to combine ideas. Learn and study both. I memorised Stebbins' stack about 20 years ago and it remains my go to, but I incorporate ideas from Tamariz, Joyal, Aronson, Close, Redford, Chapman, Watson and others.


Who's Watson?
FalseDeal
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Crosbie*** My mistake, I've been working the night shift recently.
RickDangerous
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I am a Mnemonica user, so my plan is to learn how to get into Redford stack (from a shuffled deck) and just use the inbuilt features for now without memorizing the new stack.
"Reality is what you can get away with."
Robert A. Wilson

"Think for yourself and question authority."
Timothy Leary
RickDangerous
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So out of interest: Anyone made the switch? And if not, why not?
"Reality is what you can get away with."
Robert A. Wilson

"Think for yourself and question authority."
Timothy Leary
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