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The Hermit
Veteran user
301 Posts
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Posted: Sep 23, 2017 04:39 pm
0
Just to cover all the bases, yes, you could have a ring on your finger and do the move like the guy that posted the instagram. The get ready is done. That brings up the whole point of what's wrong with IT levitations. If your ring flys down and up, it screams thread. To be really effective, you should take something from the spec or have an object you pick up and then make it levitate. They will suspect thread anyway. If I walk up and go 'look at the ring on my finger' and boom it traveled to my other hand, the first reaction from a real audience is 'where's the thread?'. I will say time stop can be effective, but all specs suspect a thread. If you take an object and then do something magical with it, it's more effective. If you hand me a dollar and I pretend to take it, turn and let go of the dollar which mysteriously hangs in the air then turn quickly back and grab it they are left with multiple concepts on how it's done. I think that's a more magical moment than a ring sliding from one hand to the other. A major gimmick or a more obvious gimmick is best used in a small effect. Just my opinion.
or
If we're 'magicians helping magicians' someone should interject more reasonable options for young magicians that require learning and practice vs buying the latest and greatest. Brick and mortar once supplied that. The Magic Café should in the new era. Once again, just my opinion.
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Gaijin
Regular user
175 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2017 01:17 pm
0
I managed to perform all routines in the video except the one where the ring goes back up into the hand down to up.
I do not manage to make it work consistently because the required "energy" is sometimes not enough and it does not shoot back high enough to be caught by the upper hand.
I also do not manage to make it work at a distance greater than 30 cm.
Do other people have a similar issue and manage to make it work? I could not find enough help on the video for this part, the rest of the teaching is absolutely superb and the routines are wonderfully great...
There is also one part of the video where Arthur shoots the ring up to his head quite high and catches it on his index held vertically. This is not taught and I assume that they had to take many shots to make this one work and is not actually possible in the "real" world, do people feel the same?
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The Hermit
Veteran user
301 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2017 04:28 pm
0
Quote: On Sep 25, 2017, Gaijin wrote:
I managed to perform all routines in the video except the one where the ring goes back up into the hand down to up.
I do not manage to make it work consistently because the required "energy" is sometimes not enough and it does not shoot back high enough to be caught by the upper hand.
I also do not manage to make it work at a distance greater than 30 cm.
Do other people have a similar issue and manage to make it work? I could not find enough help on the video for this part, the rest of the teaching is absolutely superb and the routines are wonderfully great...
There is also one part of the video where Arthur shoots the ring up to his head quite high and catches it on his index held vertically. This is not taught and I assume that they had to take many shots to make this one work and is not actually possible in the "real" world, do people feel the same?
Maybe it was a reverse camera shot? Interesting they wouldn't teach the most dramatic trick on the video.
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GeraintClarke
Special user
657 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2017 05:02 pm
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Quote: On Sep 25, 2017, The Hermit wrote:
Quote: On Sep 25, 2017, Gaijin wrote:
I managed to perform all routines in the video except the one where the ring goes back up into the hand down to up.
I do not manage to make it work consistently because the required "energy" is sometimes not enough and it does not shoot back high enough to be caught by the upper hand.
I also do not manage to make it work at a distance greater than 30 cm.
Do other people have a similar issue and manage to make it work? I could not find enough help on the video for this part, the rest of the teaching is absolutely superb and the routines are wonderfully great...
There is also one part of the video where Arthur shoots the ring up to his head quite high and catches it on his index held vertically. This is not taught and I assume that they had to take many shots to make this one work and is not actually possible in the "real" world, do people feel the same?
Maybe it was a reverse camera shot? Interesting they wouldn't teach the most dramatic trick on the video.
Hey man,
It's at 49:28 seconds in the explanation download
The routine is called Ring On Index Finger.
Cheers,
- G
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RayLogan
New user
84 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2017 07:23 pm
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Quote: On Sep 25, 2017, The Hermit wrote:
Quote: On Sep 25, 2017, Gaijin wrote:
I managed to perform all routines in the video except the one where the ring goes back up into the hand down to up.
I do not manage to make it work consistently because the required "energy" is sometimes not enough and it does not shoot back high enough to be caught by the upper hand.
I also do not manage to make it work at a distance greater than 30 cm.
Do other people have a similar issue and manage to make it work? I could not find enough help on the video for this part, the rest of the teaching is absolutely superb and the routines are wonderfully great...
There is also one part of the video where Arthur shoots the ring up to his head quite high and catches it on his index held vertically. This is not taught and I assume that they had to take many shots to make this one work and is not actually possible in the "real" world, do people feel the same?
Maybe it was a reverse camera shot? Interesting they wouldn't teach the most dramatic trick on the video.
Reverse camera, nope, not sure who would try to pass that off? Also interesting is that ring on finger is taught on the video by the way, if you don't have Venom/video why state information that is not correct? Just sayin'. IMHO
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SleepyMagic
Inner circle
Hopefully I'll pass my exams with
1646 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2017 07:26 pm
0
I think he's talking about the part where Arthur throws the finger in the air and catches it on his finger...not the effect where the ring kind of jumps from his hand onto his finger.
Sleepy
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tonsofquestions
Inner circle
1802 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2017 08:40 pm
1
I think the question is muddled because there are two effects that Hermit's asking about.
1) "the one where the ring goes back up into the hand down to up"
(~1:16 in the trailer)
2) "where Arthur shoots the ring up to his head quite high and catches it on his index held vertically"
(~1:02 in the trailer)
I suspect #1 is the one Geraint's talking about
Quote: It's at 49:28 seconds in the explanation download
The routine is called Ring On Index Finger.
And I could imagine how it could be (mis)interpreted as a reverse camera shot, as it does look like time going backwards. I'd be very surprised if it was a camera trick, though.
#2 is just a knack. It takes a lot of practice, but is doable without lots of retries once you have it. You can find instruction for it in CF Yeun's Nightcrawler: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S21606, and possibly elsewhere, but that comes to mind first. Definitely not a camera trick, as the motion in reverse would be even more unnatural.
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RayLogan
New user
84 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2017 09:06 pm
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Quote: On Sep 23, 2017, The Hermit wrote:
Quote: On Sep 22, 2017, WitchDocChris wrote:
The horizontal ring flight takes very little set up. No more than any other reel-based technique I've seen. It would not be unreasonable to describe it as, "Display a ring on your finger, take the ring off, separate your hands, the ring flies back to the original hand."
If you don't know how the trick is done, it's not very genuine to make declarations that it's misleading.
First off, if you don't know what someone else knows you shouldn't make declarations about their understanding. I am referring to the ellusionist video. I know all things are hyped. I know the fanboys here will say anything about a new product if they like the manufacturer or the product. It would not be unreasonable, but it would not be accurate either.
I know how it's done. The method and variations have been around. You have to bring your hands together with the ring, make a move that's not that transparent, separate your hands and the ring flys. At no point on the video do you see that. The video shows the ring in one hand and it flys to the other. Tthey make it look really easy and clean - it's not. I get they're selling. It's just not an actual representation of what really happens in front of the spec. Unexperienced magicians should know that. Are some of the people here pitching this ellusionist employees? They should make that clear as well.
Sorry Hermit but you have been making statements about something I feel you have no clue about and you really don't know how it's done, extremely obvious by your comments. If you did you would know how easy it is to be in the set-up position. The hook-up is different than what is out there so you don't know the method or variations, this is their main secret info. The video IS accurate, no I don't work for them, first product from them. I am a fan of the product. Unexperienced magicians? Really? It sounds like you in regards to this. The video is a trailer, not a teaching session. It is easy and clean (how can you say it's not when you don't have it and don't know the inner workings), took me an hour and the ring hand to hand looks great. I don't know exactly what you mean by transparent but yes there is nothing to see. The set-up is invisible, no pun intended but it's natural and clean and can be done multiple times in front of the specs noses. You can borrow their ring, put it on your finger, you can drop it or whatever, then it flies from hand to hand, a full cool routine if you had the video. I'm not a fanboy by the way... another generalization you've made in your statements. I say either buy it or don't make statements about things you really have no accurate information on.
In your other post you said:
"Just to cover all the bases, yes, you could have a ring on your finger and do the move like the guy that posted the instagram. The get ready is done. That brings up the whole point of what's wrong with IT levitations. If your ring flys down and up, it screams thread. To be really effective, you should take something from the spec or have an object you pick up and then make it levitate. They will suspect thread anyway. If I walk up and go 'look at the ring on my finger' and boom it traveled to my other hand, the first reaction from a real audience is 'where's the thread?'. I will say time stop can be effective, but all specs suspect a thread. If you take an object and then do something magical with it, it's more effective."
You aren't covering any bases here, you are passing them by with incorrect info again... If that's how you do magic, walk up with a ring on your finger and make it fly, yes, you'll probably telegraph that. That could be the way some do magic but please don't infer everybody does. That's not the way I perform or would I. Again stating things you don't know about is not helping others. The ring does NOT have to be on your finger to start, it can be on your toe for that matter, a specs finger... Spectators don't scream anything when I perform it except " Oh my God!!!" I practice and don't perform anything until it's correct. I'm not bragging, this is how many on here are or should be. Venom done correctly in the right hands screams nothing. This is exactly that, take an object and do something magical with it. If you are stuck with the mindset that specs are always going to suspect thread then just don't use it if you're not comfortable with it, a lot of practice helps. One should know what you are talking about when you diss a product or technique without the proper knowledge, which you have shown just the opposite. Time stop, if you knew it... the spec can take the ring right out of the air while it's "stopped," or it falls into their hand - not for the faint hearted but possible. Erases any thoughts on thread.
Here's a bone... I do a muscle pass with a half dollar a few times, then I use a borrowed ring and it flies... with appropriate patter (could follow with ring flight). Pretty darn magical reaction so far with no thread comments.
Sorry for ranting on you Hermit but you have been making inaccurate statements continually.
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Gaijin
Regular user
175 Posts
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Posted: Sep 26, 2017 08:30 am
0
Quote: On Sep 25, 2017, tonsofquestions wrote:
I think the question is muddled because there are two effects that Hermit's asking about.
1) "the one where the ring goes back up into the hand down to up"
(~1:16 in the trailer)
2) "where Arthur shoots the ring up to his head quite high and catches it on his index held vertically"
(~1:02 in the trailer)
I suspect #1 is the one Geraint's talking about
Quote: It's at 49:28 seconds in the explanation download
The routine is called Ring On Index Finger.
And I could imagine how it could be (mis)interpreted as a reverse camera shot, as it does look like time going backwards. I'd be very surprised if it was a camera trick, though.
#2 is just a knack. It takes a lot of practice, but is doable without lots of retries once you have it. You can find instruction for it in CF Yeun's Nightcrawler: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S21606, and possibly elsewhere, but that comes to mind first. Definitely not a camera trick, as the motion in reverse would be even more unnatural.
You are spot on about #2! I just checked the trailer of your link and the 2 moves shown in the video (throwing + ring through finger) are exactly the same as the ones done by Arthur without explanations. I am stunned that this is actually doable with pure sleight of hand, I would have never thought of it.
This being said, I am still stuck with the one move of the teaching called "back in time" taught at 0:28:00 in the video. Sometimes, it just does not work because when throwing the "energy" into the move, the ring does not shoot up and instead the th***d expands more and the ring stays in the palm of my hand. I have no ways to make this reliable, did someone manage to master it and have some advice?
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tonsofquestions
Inner circle
1802 Posts
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Posted: Sep 26, 2017 05:44 pm
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Quote: On Sep 26, 2017, Gaijin wrote:
You are spot on about #2! I just checked the trailer of your link and the 2 moves shown in the video (throwing + ring through finger) are exactly the same as the ones done by Arthur without explanations. I am stunned that this is actually doable with pure sleight of hand, I would have never thought of it.
I suspect it was one of those "I did it by accident, can I do it repeatedly"? kinds of things. That or some manipulator/juggler came up with it originally. Again, I'd emphasize that it's not really a "sleight" per-se, as I don't think of it as trying to be hidden just a knack, like a coin roll.
Quote: On Sep 26, 2017, Gaijin wrote:This being said, I am still stuck with the one move of the teaching called "back in time" taught at 0:28:00 in the video. Sometimes, it just does not work because when throwing the "energy" into the move, the ring does not shoot up and instead the th***d expands more and the ring stays in the palm of my hand. I have no ways to make this reliable, did someone manage to master it and have some advice?
With the caveat that I don't own this yet, but can guess some things from the video + your comment: I'd try making sure you keep tension between the two hands. The th***d expanding sounds like your energy is going into separating, and not upwards, though too tight and you can't split. I'd guess that if you keep the balance between the two, the ring will fly, but it'll take a little practice to get it just right. (As with everything in magic.)
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The Hermit
Veteran user
301 Posts
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Posted: Sep 26, 2017 07:42 pm
0
Quote: On Sep 25, 2017, RayLogan wrote:
Quote: On Sep 23, 2017, The Hermit wrote:
Quote: On Sep 22, 2017, WitchDocChris wrote:
The horizontal ring flight takes very little set up. No more than any other reel-based technique I've seen. It would not be unreasonable to describe it as, "Display a ring on your finger, take the ring off, separate your hands, the ring flies back to the original hand."
If you don't know how the trick is done, it's not very genuine to make declarations that it's misleading.
First off, if you don't know what someone else knows you shouldn't make declarations about their understanding. I am referring to the ellusionist video. I know all things are hyped. I know the fanboys here will say anything about a new product if they like the manufacturer or the product. It would not be unreasonable, but it would not be accurate either.
I know how it's done. The method and variations have been around. You have to bring your hands together with the ring, make a move that's not that transparent, separate your hands and the ring flys. At no point on the video do you see that. The video shows the ring in one hand and it flys to the other. Tthey make it look really easy and clean - it's not. I get they're selling. It's just not an actual representation of what really happens in front of the spec. Unexperienced magicians should know that. Are some of the people here pitching this ellusionist employees? They should make that clear as well.
Sorry Hermit but you have been making statements about something I feel you have no clue about and you really don't know how it's done, extremely obvious by your comments. If you did you would know how easy it is to be in the set-up position. The hook-up is different than what is out there so you don't know the method or variations, this is their main secret info. The video IS accurate, no I don't work for them, first product from them. I am a fan of the product. Unexperienced magicians? Really? It sounds like you in regards to this. The video is a trailer, not a teaching session. It is easy and clean (how can you say it's not when you don't have it and don't know the inner workings), took me an hour and the ring hand to hand looks great. I don't know exactly what you mean by transparent but yes there is nothing to see. The set-up is invisible, no pun intended but it's natural and clean and can be done multiple times in front of the specs noses. You can borrow their ring, put it on your finger, you can drop it or whatever, then it flies from hand to hand, a full cool routine if you had the video. I'm not a fanboy by the way... another generalization you've made in your statements. I say either buy it or don't make statements about things you really have no accurate information on.
In your other post you said:
"Just to cover all the bases, yes, you could have a ring on your finger and do the move like the guy that posted the instagram. The get ready is done. That brings up the whole point of what's wrong with IT levitations. If your ring flys down and up, it screams thread. To be really effective, you should take something from the spec or have an object you pick up and then make it levitate. They will suspect thread anyway. If I walk up and go 'look at the ring on my finger' and boom it traveled to my other hand, the first reaction from a real audience is 'where's the thread?'. I will say time stop can be effective, but all specs suspect a thread. If you take an object and then do something magical with it, it's more effective."
You aren't covering any bases here, you are passing them by with incorrect info again... If that's how you do magic, walk up with a ring on your finger and make it fly, yes, you'll probably telegraph that. That could be the way some do magic but please don't infer everybody does. That's not the way I perform or would I. Again stating things you don't know about is not helping others. The ring does NOT have to be on your finger to start, it can be on your toe for that matter, a specs finger... Spectators don't scream anything when I perform it except " Oh my God!!!" I practice and don't perform anything until it's correct. I'm not bragging, this is how many on here are or should be. Venom done correctly in the right hands screams nothing. This is exactly that, take an object and do something magical with it. If you are stuck with the mindset that specs are always going to suspect thread then just don't use it if you're not comfortable with it, a lot of practice helps. One should know what you are talking about when you diss a product or technique without the proper knowledge, which you have shown just the opposite. Time stop, if you knew it... the spec can take the ring right out of the air while it's "stopped," or it falls into their hand - not for the faint hearted but possible. Erases any thoughts on thread.
Here's a bone... I do a muscle pass with a half dollar a few times, then I use a borrowed ring and it flies... with appropriate patter (could follow with ring flight). Pretty darn magical reaction so far with no thread comments.
Sorry for ranting on you Hermit but you have been making inaccurate statements continually.
FYI I have seen the videos. The hookup requires you to put the ring on your finger to engage the hookup with your index finger. You cannot take a ring and make it move without first putting it on your finger, doing a move and then the action. That is what I described. There is a get ready with it on your finger. If I am a spec, I wonder why you had to put it on your finger, bring your hands together and then the magic happens. I know it doesn't have to be on the finger to start. I'm glad you love it. Your are misconstruing what I am saying. A Fearson or other hookup at least eliminates moves before the magic. I referred to the deceptive nature of the promo first. Later I referred to the hookup. Nothing I said is factually wrong. show me on the promo where you see them do a hookup. According to what you are saying above, you can make it levitate with it on the specs finger. Not true. You have to take the ring and get the hookup. It's not a new hookup. The only reason I know about this is a friend brought it over to show me the newest greatest thing in thread. He did the horizontal move. I went to a drawer, got invisible thread, notched my fingernail and did the same effect. Just to be fair, I think the linking rings is the best trick you can do with it. Still don't like the hookup process. Different strokes.
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SleepyMagic
Inner circle
Hopefully I'll pass my exams with
1646 Posts
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Posted: Sep 26, 2017 08:12 pm
0
TO OWNERS OF VENOM:
Some of you may not like the idea I'm about to present but some of you may like it.
So it's basically a way of using the venom whilst they are in the same pocket (eg right inside breast pocket of a jacket or one pocket of your jeans)....the reason I do this is two reasons...the first one... before, when the two venoms were in standby mode...you had to move one to another pocket which although was very easy..made it fiddly for me due to the way my pockets are...so it would sometimes take me a good 20 seconds to properly attach the second venom to the other pocket. And secondly, if you are performing in jeans ...then this minimises a lot of snagging that may occur .
So here is the tip...instead of moving one venom to another pocket...just put one venom on one side of the pocket and slide the other venom to the other side of the same pocket when you want to use them...the access to the th**ad will be a bit less discreet as you have to go near your pocket.. however this isn't a problem for me as I can disguise it as doing something else like taking out a Sharpie...you can still do most if not all the effects seen in the trailer! And once you've done the effect, just slide the venom back to the other side and you're done and ready to go again!
PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK!
Thanks
Sleepy
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The Hermit
Veteran user
301 Posts
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Posted: Sep 26, 2017 08:34 pm
0
Quote: On Sep 25, 2017, RayLogan wrote:
Quote: On Sep 23, 2017, The Hermit wrote:
Quote: On Sep 22, 2017, WitchDocChris wrote:
The horizontal ring flight takes very little set up. No more than any other reel-based technique I've seen. It would not be unreasonable to describe it as, "Display a ring on your finger, take the ring off, separate your hands, the ring flies back to the original hand."
If you don't know how the trick is done, it's not very genuine to make declarations that it's misleading.
First off, if you don't know what someone else knows you shouldn't make declarations about their understanding. I am referring to the ellusionist video. I know all things are hyped. I know the fanboys here will say anything about a new product if they like the manufacturer or the product. It would not be unreasonable, but it would not be accurate either.
I know how it's done. The method and variations have been around. You have to bring your hands together with the ring, make a move that's not that transparent, separate your hands and the ring flys. At no point on the video do you see that. The video shows the ring in one hand and it flys to the other. Tthey make it look really easy and clean - it's not. I get they're selling. It's just not an actual representation of what really happens in front of the spec. Unexperienced magicians should know that. Are some of the people here pitching this ellusionist employees? They should make that clear as well.
Sorry Hermit but you have been making statements about something I feel you have no clue about and you really don't know how it's done, extremely obvious by your comments. If you did you would know how easy it is to be in the set-up position. The hook-up is different than what is out there so you don't know the method or variations, this is their main secret info. The video IS accurate, no I don't work for them, first product from them. I am a fan of the product. Unexperienced magicians? Really? It sounds like you in regards to this. The video is a trailer, not a teaching session. It is easy and clean (how can you say it's not when you don't have it and don't know the inner workings), took me an hour and the ring hand to hand looks great. I don't know exactly what you mean by transparent but yes there is nothing to see. The set-up is invisible, no pun intended but it's natural and clean and can be done multiple times in front of the specs noses. You can borrow their ring, put it on your finger, you can drop it or whatever, then it flies from hand to hand, a full cool routine if you had the video. I'm not a fanboy by the way... another generalization you've made in your statements. I say either buy it or don't make statements about things you really have no accurate information on.
In your other post you said:
"Just to cover all the bases, yes, you could have a ring on your finger and do the move like the guy that posted the instagram. The get ready is done. That brings up the whole point of what's wrong with IT levitations. If your ring flys down and up, it screams thread. To be really effective, you should take something from the spec or have an object you pick up and then make it levitate. They will suspect thread anyway. If I walk up and go 'look at the ring on my finger' and boom it traveled to my other hand, the first reaction from a real audience is 'where's the thread?'. I will say time stop can be effective, but all specs suspect a thread. If you take an object and then do something magical with it, it's more effective."
You aren't covering any bases here, you are passing them by with incorrect info again... If that's how you do magic, walk up with a ring on your finger and make it fly, yes, you'll probably telegraph that. That could be the way some do magic but please don't infer everybody does. That's not the way I perform or would I. Again stating things you don't know about is not helping others. The ring does NOT have to be on your finger to start, it can be on your toe for that matter, a specs finger... Spectators don't scream anything when I perform it except " Oh my God!!!" I practice and don't perform anything until it's correct. I'm not bragging, this is how many on here are or should be. Venom done correctly in the right hands screams nothing. This is exactly that, take an object and do something magical with it. If you are stuck with the mindset that specs are always going to suspect thread then just don't use it if you're not comfortable with it, a lot of practice helps. One should know what you are talking about when you diss a product or technique without the proper knowledge, which you have shown just the opposite. Time stop, if you knew it... the spec can take the ring right out of the air while it's "stopped," or it falls into their hand - not for the faint hearted but possible. Erases any thoughts on thread.
Here's a bone... I do a muscle pass with a half dollar a few times, then I use a borrowed ring and it flies... with appropriate patter (could follow with ring flight). Pretty darn magical reaction so far with no thread comments.
Sorry for ranting on you Hermit but you have been making inaccurate statements continually.
You are parsing several comments and making inferences that are not implied. You should think before you make personal remarks about what I do or do not know or my level of experience. When I referred to inexperienced magicians I am referring to people who think this is a new and only way to do what's on the video. It's not. Also to take the video with a grain of salt. Reviews here tend to make everything sound like the trailer. Someone should point out that there are cheaper ways for young magicians to get similar effects. I guess have enough experience to know that this kind of hookup has been around.
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The Hermit
Veteran user
301 Posts
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Posted: Sep 26, 2017 08:58 pm
0
Quote: On Sep 25, 2017, tonsofquestions wrote:
I think the question is muddled because there are two effects that Hermit's asking about.
1) "the one where the ring goes back up into the hand down to up"
(~1:16 in the trailer)
2) "where Arthur shoots the ring up to his head quite high and catches it on his index held vertically"
(~1:02 in the trailer)
I suspect #1 is the one Geraint's talking about
Quote: It's at 49:28 seconds in the explanation download
The routine is called Ring On Index Finger.
And I could imagine how it could be (mis)interpreted as a reverse camera shot, as it does look like time going backwards. I'd be very surprised if it was a camera trick, though.
#2 is just a knack. It takes a lot of practice, but is doable without lots of retries once you have it. You can find instruction for it in CF Yeun's Nightcrawler: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S21606, and possibly elsewhere, but that comes to mind first. Definitely not a camera trick, as the motion in reverse would be even more unnatural.
You mean you can't do this trick that was featured on the promo as if you can with the new product. I'm shocked.
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RayLogan
New user
84 Posts
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Posted: Sep 27, 2017 04:34 am
0
Quote: On Sep 26, 2017, The Hermit wrote:
Quote: On Sep 25, 2017, RayLogan wrote:
Quote: On Sep 23, 2017, The Hermit wrote:
Quote: On Sep 22, 2017, WitchDocChris wrote:
The horizontal ring flight takes very little set up. No more than any other reel-based technique I've seen. It would not be unreasonable to describe it as, "Display a ring on your finger, take the ring off, separate your hands, the ring flies back to the original hand."
If you don't know how the trick is done, it's not very genuine to make declarations that it's misleading.
First off, if you don't know what someone else knows you shouldn't make declarations about their understanding. I am referring to the ellusionist video. I know all things are hyped. I know the fanboys here will say anything about a new product if they like the manufacturer or the product. It would not be unreasonable, but it would not be accurate either.
I know how it's done. The method and variations have been around. You have to bring your hands together with the ring, make a move that's not that transparent, separate your hands and the ring flys. At no point on the video do you see that. The video shows the ring in one hand and it flys to the other. Tthey make it look really easy and clean - it's not. I get they're selling. It's just not an actual representation of what really happens in front of the spec. Unexperienced magicians should know that. Are some of the people here pitching this ellusionist employees? They should make that clear as well.
Sorry Hermit but you have been making statements about something I feel you have no clue about and you really don't know how it's done, extremely obvious by your comments. If you did you would know how easy it is to be in the set-up position. The hook-up is different than what is out there so you don't know the method or variations, this is their main secret info. The video IS accurate, no I don't work for them, first product from them. I am a fan of the product. Unexperienced magicians? Really? It sounds like you in regards to this. The video is a trailer, not a teaching session. It is easy and clean (how can you say it's not when you don't have it and don't know the inner workings), took me an hour and the ring hand to hand looks great. I don't know exactly what you mean by transparent but yes there is nothing to see. The set-up is invisible, no pun intended but it's natural and clean and can be done multiple times in front of the specs noses. You can borrow their ring, put it on your finger, you can drop it or whatever, then it flies from hand to hand, a full cool routine if you had the video. I'm not a fanboy by the way... another generalization you've made in your statements. I say either buy it or don't make statements about things you really have no accurate information on.
In your other post you said:
"Just to cover all the bases, yes, you could have a ring on your finger and do the move like the guy that posted the instagram. The get ready is done. That brings up the whole point of what's wrong with IT levitations. If your ring flys down and up, it screams thread. To be really effective, you should take something from the spec or have an object you pick up and then make it levitate. They will suspect thread anyway. If I walk up and go 'look at the ring on my finger' and boom it traveled to my other hand, the first reaction from a real audience is 'where's the thread?'. I will say time stop can be effective, but all specs suspect a thread. If you take an object and then do something magical with it, it's more effective."
You aren't covering any bases here, you are passing them by with incorrect info again... If that's how you do magic, walk up with a ring on your finger and make it fly, yes, you'll probably telegraph that. That could be the way some do magic but please don't infer everybody does. That's not the way I perform or would I. Again stating things you don't know about is not helping others. The ring does NOT have to be on your finger to start, it can be on your toe for that matter, a specs finger... Spectators don't scream anything when I perform it except " Oh my God!!!" I practice and don't perform anything until it's correct. I'm not bragging, this is how many on here are or should be. Venom done correctly in the right hands screams nothing. This is exactly that, take an object and do something magical with it. If you are stuck with the mindset that specs are always going to suspect thread then just don't use it if you're not comfortable with it, a lot of practice helps. One should know what you are talking about when you diss a product or technique without the proper knowledge, which you have shown just the opposite. Time stop, if you knew it... the spec can take the ring right out of the air while it's "stopped," or it falls into their hand - not for the faint hearted but possible. Erases any thoughts on thread.
Here's a bone... I do a muscle pass with a half dollar a few times, then I use a borrowed ring and it flies... with appropriate patter (could follow with ring flight). Pretty darn magical reaction so far with no thread comments.
Sorry for ranting on you Hermit but you have been making inaccurate statements continually.
You are parsing several comments and making inferences that are not implied. You should think before you make personal remarks about what I do or do not know or my level of experience. When I referred to inexperienced magicians I am referring to people who think this is a new and only way to do what's on the video. It's not. Also to take the video with a grain of salt. Reviews here tend to make everything sound like the trailer. Someone should point out that there are cheaper ways for young magicians to get similar effects. I guess have enough experience to know that this kind of hookup has been around.
You talk in circles with no knowledge. And WTF does " You are parsing several comments and making inferences that are not implied." mean? I say foul, sorry, this is a new hook-up, these effects have never been done before as seen with the Venom, period. Again, you don't know, buy it then speak. It has nothing to do with "inexperienced magicians", it is the only way to do these effects, maybe with other ITRs but still with their new hook-up/teachings/routine... geez, please get your facts straight or don't post inaccurate information. IMHFO BTW, I thought deeply about your experience and what you may know on this issue, nothing more, and I give you an F- Not being rude but you don't know enough to spew out the info you have given and have no clue on this hook-up, zero, none... Totally inaccurate again. I'm done. I just hope nobody thinks your info is correct, again sorry, nothing personal, you just don't know what you are talking about!
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Gaijin
Regular user
175 Posts
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Posted: Sep 27, 2017 08:48 am
1
Quote: On Sep 26, 2017, SleepyMagic wrote:
TO OWNERS OF VENOM:
Some of you may not like the idea I'm about to present but some of you may like it.
So it's basically a way of using the venom whilst they are in the same pocket (eg right inside breast pocket of a jacket or one pocket of your jeans)....the reason I do this is two reasons...the first one... before, when the two venoms were in standby mode...you had to move one to another pocket which although was very easy..made it fiddly for me due to the way my pockets are...so it would sometimes take me a good 20 seconds to properly attach the second venom to the other pocket. And secondly, if you are performing in jeans ...then this minimises a lot of snagging that may occur .
So here is the tip...instead of moving one venom to another pocket...just put one venom on one side of the pocket and slide the other venom to the other side of the same pocket when you want to use them...the access to the th**ad will be a bit less discreet as you have to go near your pocket.. however this isn't a problem for me as I can disguise it as doing something else like taking out a Sharpie...you can still do most if not all the effects seen in the trailer! And once you've done the effect, just slide the venom back to the other side and you're done and ready to go again!
PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK!
Thanks
Sleepy
My initial guess is that two Venoms in the same pocket would create more breakage of the t***d. In the taught hook-ups both hands are symmetrical to the body and pull each t**d in the direction of the cap's hole of each Venom. Your set-up will make the t***d lean against the cap of one Venom and increase its friction resulting to a different tension in both which is an undesirable feature.
However, I see one example where this could be useful if you need to make l**p kind of effects. The fact that both threads are almost parallel when coming out of the same pocket make the setting similar to a classic l**p. I managed to replicate the set-up of existing IT products that I bought using this set-up.
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Gaijin
Regular user
175 Posts
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Posted: Sep 27, 2017 08:51 am
0
Quote: On Sep 26, 2017, tonsofquestions wrote:
Quote: On Sep 26, 2017, Gaijin wrote:
You are spot on about #2! I just checked the trailer of your link and the 2 moves shown in the video (throwing + ring through finger) are exactly the same as the ones done by Arthur without explanations. I am stunned that this is actually doable with pure sleight of hand, I would have never thought of it.
I suspect it was one of those "I did it by accident, can I do it repeatedly"? kinds of things. That or some manipulator/juggler came up with it originally. Again, I'd emphasize that it's not really a "sleight" per-se, as I don't think of it as trying to be hidden just a knack, like a coin roll.
Quote: On Sep 26, 2017, Gaijin wrote:This being said, I am still stuck with the one move of the teaching called "back in time" taught at 0:28:00 in the video. Sometimes, it just does not work because when throwing the "energy" into the move, the ring does not shoot up and instead the th***d expands more and the ring stays in the palm of my hand. I have no ways to make this reliable, did someone manage to master it and have some advice?
With the caveat that I don't own this yet, but can guess some things from the video + your comment: I'd try making sure you keep tension between the two hands. The th***d expanding sounds like your energy is going into separating, and not upwards, though too tight and you can't split. I'd guess that if you keep the balance between the two, the ring will fly, but it'll take a little practice to get it just right. (As with everything in magic.)
@tonsofquestions: you are spot on again, this was my conclusion as well when practicing, however even if I already knew what was wrong, I did not manage to find a consistent way to fix it yet.
But your comment assured me that we at least share the same conclusion so it should not be difficult for me to find the solution. I guess that I was a little bit too lazy for that and was counting on the Café to give me the solution .
Thank you very much for helping me!
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Gaijin
Regular user
175 Posts
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Posted: Sep 27, 2017 08:56 am
0
Quote: On Sep 26, 2017, The Hermit wrote:
You mean you can't do this trick that was featured on the promo as if you can with the new product. I'm shocked.
Not sure how I should interpret that:
- Are you implying that the product's advertisement is misleading (I don't believe so)
- Do you imply that a lot of practice is required to master it? (for most effects I don't think so, only back in time is still resisting me. IT-experienced people will learn this super fast I think).
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RayLogan
New user
84 Posts
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Posted: Sep 27, 2017 06:58 pm
0
Quote: On Sep 26, 2017, SleepyMagic wrote:
TO OWNERS OF VENOM:
Some of you may not like the idea I'm about to present but some of you may like it.
So it's basically a way of using the venom whilst they are in the same pocket (eg right inside breast pocket of a jacket or one pocket of your jeans)....the reason I do this is two reasons...the first one... before, when the two venoms were in standby mode...you had to move one to another pocket which although was very easy..made it fiddly for me due to the way my pockets are...so it would sometimes take me a good 20 seconds to properly attach the second venom to the other pocket. And secondly, if you are performing in jeans ...then this minimises a lot of snagging that may occur .
So here is the tip...instead of moving one venom to another pocket...just put one venom on one side of the pocket and slide the other venom to the other side of the same pocket when you want to use them...the access to the th**ad will be a bit less discreet as you have to go near your pocket.. however this isn't a problem for me as I can disguise it as doing something else like taking out a Sharpie...you can still do most if not all the effects seen in the trailer! And once you've done the effect, just slide the venom back to the other side and you're done and ready to go again!
PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK!
Thanks
Sleepy
Cool, I'll play with it a bit! Thx.
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SleepyMagic
Inner circle
Hopefully I'll pass my exams with
1646 Posts
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Posted: Sep 27, 2017 07:04 pm
0
Quote: On Sep 27, 2017, Gaijin wrote:
Quote: On Sep 26, 2017, SleepyMagic wrote:
TO OWNERS OF VENOM:
Some of you may not like the idea I'm about to present but some of you may like it.
So it's basically a way of using the venom whilst they are in the same pocket (eg right inside breast pocket of a jacket or one pocket of your jeans)....the reason I do this is two reasons...the first one... before, when the two venoms were in standby mode...you had to move one to another pocket which although was very easy..made it fiddly for me due to the way my pockets are...so it would sometimes take me a good 20 seconds to properly attach the second venom to the other pocket. And secondly, if you are performing in jeans ...then this minimises a lot of snagging that may occur .
So here is the tip...instead of moving one venom to another pocket...just put one venom on one side of the pocket and slide the other venom to the other side of the same pocket when you want to use them...the access to the th**ad will be a bit less discreet as you have to go near your pocket.. however this isn't a problem for me as I can disguise it as doing something else like taking out a Sharpie...you can still do most if not all the effects seen in the trailer! And once you've done the effect, just slide the venom back to the other side and you're done and ready to go again!
PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK!
Thanks
Sleepy
My initial guess is that two Venoms in the same pocket would create more breakage of the t***d. In the taught hook-ups both hands are symmetrical to the body and pull each t**d in the direction of the cap's hole of each Venom. Your set-up will make the t***d lean against the cap of one Venom and increase its friction resulting to a different tension in both which is an undesirable feature.
However, I see one example where this could be useful if you need to make l**p kind of effects. The fact that both threads are almost parallel when coming out of the same pocket make the setting similar to a classic l**p. I managed to replicate the set-up of existing IT products that I bought using this set-up.
I have not encountered any problems that you have suggested like the more easy th***d breakages and different tensions...I just slightly twist the caps so the th***d doesn't lean against it..
The concept is the same as the normal hookup but it's just in the same pocket.
Sleepy
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