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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Joe Crist (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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tommy
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I am sure it would be worth it if he had met Mickey Mouse MacDougal.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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lagoss
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On Nov 12, 2017, Cagliostro wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 12, 2017, lagoss wrote:

So it seems that Joe Crist is releasing a version of Erdnase...$20,000 already pledged (of $5,000).


What? $20,000 pledged but only $5,000 needed? Where does the difference of $15,000 go...The Cagliostro Foundation for Advanced Card Table Philosophical Thought?


Lol.. That’s a very good question!
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One thing I don't understand, is that there is no video of that Joe Crist. We live in 2017 and it's very very easy to shoot a short clip. Even cell phones offer now 1080p possibilities, if not more!

I understand anglo-saxon mentality in terms of business and marketing (I live in UK). When they sell something, it's always the best thing in the world, the top thing on earth and the second to none thing on the universe. Okay, okay. But at least, so far in Magic, such verbiage is always coming from topnotch guys, like the excellent Richard Turner for instance. Everyone has seen them on videos, DVD, youtube, forums, etc. Therefore, even if find that way of advertising puerile, I'm "okay" with it because the skills of the guys. Well, for most of them...

But here we have someone who has shown nothing. A few great names of Magic have apparently said good things about him but, to me, it is worth nothing. Because what I say in the paragraph above, I'm so used to read laudatory comments about every material about to be released that, at some point, it's just irrelevant. The only way to be sure is to see, what we called, as gamblers, showdown time.

How can someone buy a book which will have 0 added value? Drawings replaced by photos, yeahhhhh what a novelty. David Ben did it a couple of years ago. A new preface with some unverifiable theory about Erdnase? That's really what people paid $200 for? I don't understand, people are about to pay $200 for a book where drawings will be replaced by photos with the hands of someone who is said to be the best but from whom we can't see nothing? Are people that stupid or it is just me?

I'm telling you, I think this Joe Crist is gonna be my hero. If you read this page Joe, I publicly congratulate you. One disappointment though, you should have charged those sheep $500.
Cagliostro
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On Nov 14, 2017, AMcD wrote:

How can someone buy a book which will have 0 added value? Drawings replaced by photos, yeahhhhh what a novelty. David Ben did it a couple of years ago. A new preface with some unverifiable theory about Erdnase? That's really what people paid $200 for? I don't understand, people are about to pay $200 for a book where drawings will be replaced by photos with the hands of someone who is said to be the best but from whom we can't see nothing? Are people that stupid or it is just me?


You just don't get it AMcD. It's cult thinking in large part. Many things that pertain to the Erdnase mystique, (but not all things of course), produce a complete suspension of rational thought. It's pure emotion...because it's Erdnase, and if it says Erdnase, well...just got to have it.

Makes sense to me. I'm sending in my donation.
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Cult thinking or showing off?

How many of those Erdnase aficionados have NEVER read his book? But for a couple of weeks, if JC sells everything, those buyers will have their moment. Just think about it, they would have the book everyone is talking about!

I would have "understood" the price if a DVD was added, showing the moves.

My next book will be $500 by the way. 8 pages, with 15 photos. But I'm gonna reveal, for the first time, 100% exclusivity, the shoe size of Erdnase.
tommy
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Those who know, know those who know, use an alias sometimes: for all we know, there might be 101 videos of Joe Christ by some other name.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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AMcD
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Yes, it's a possibility. But not using them for advertising when you call yourself a legend, I just don't get it.

Again, he's gonna show photos. He doesn't have to be skilled for that.
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On Nov 14, 2017, AMcD wrote:

My next book will be $500 by the way. 8 pages, with 15 photos. But I'm gonna reveal, for the first time, 100% exclusivity, the shoe size of Erdnase.


AMcD, you are incredible. You are not just on the cutting edge, but beyond...

How you were able to determine Erdnase's shoe size is mind-boggling. I am putting in an advance order for your book just to find out that information. If you have any knowledge of the type or design of the shoes he wore, perhaps we can joint venture manufacturing replica Erdnase shoes, in various sizes of course, for those that must have "everything Erdnase."

Imagine the lofty reputation an Erdnase enthusiast could attain just by wearing the new Erdnase shoe and doing a demo of the Erdnase 4-way cut, a move which all hustlers aspire to attain.

What next? Erdnase T-shirts, hats, socks... Hey, there is money to be made regardless of what we sell. Just put Erdnase's name somewhere in the ad copy and on the product and watch the dollars come pouring in.

We could probably even sell Erdnase Cleaning Supplies or Rest Room fixtures.

The possibilities are endless. Smile
lagoss
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I completely agree with you Arnold. Even if he can perform every move to near perfection, how are a few photos supposed to help? The text isn’t being changed so I really don’t understand how you're supposed to get anything out of it. I mean maybe if he gave updated handlings or at least some notes on each move to describe his thoughts and give some instruction, but just photos... I agree that if a DVD was included that would also make a big difference.

The whole thing really ****s me because there are a ton of people, who have clearly been told they are going to get a free copy of the book if they preach Joe’s skill and knowledge and encourage you to buy it. Most of them have never even seen Joe’s work or even met him, but it’s always the same thing: “Joe’s been taught by and preached as one of the best card handlers of our time... the most knowledgeable Erdnase expert bla bla”.

BUT that’s not anywhere NEAR the worst of it. He and his supporters actually have the hide to attest to just how generous he’s being because he’s writing a foreword to his book...!? It’s a $200 (actually $250 after the discount is over) book!? Are you kidding me?! If he sells 300 copies at $200 that $60,000! And he is being generous in a writing a foreword for the book...? You can’t be serious!! Not only that but the photos were ‘expertly’ shot by an unknown Instagram photographer, with almost 1000 followers!!! (Yes sarcasm) Oh and she happens to be Joe’s GF!!!

It really annoys me that so many people who are famous in the community are preaching the book. As revered as TEATCT is, most of the work now has better handlings. Even if he is the most amazing card handler, even the best put out crappy material, especially when it’s their first attempt. Plus what he is offering is limited to the work in the book. With no tips or changes, just photos of the exact move as it’s described. There are already a million DVDs, books etc that demonstrate the work (including EACTCT?) plus most come with actual instruction on the moves and updated handling.

He does everything in his power to entice you too “only book I’ll ever write... I give away secrets about something that will instantly improve your card handling...! I tel you never before heard facts about Erdnase!...” pfft okay.

Maybe some people are collectors and that’s fine. It’s probably a cool piece to have. But for those who are being suckered in by the ‘leaders’ in the community well it’s not fair on them. They sell it as though it’s a must have with vital information. What? It’s photos of moves that have been around for over a century??? Anyway, I guess he’s a smart guy. $60,000 in sales after some photos and a short foreword, not bad at all.
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Maybe I should write my annotated version...

Hey, after all, I can do most of the moves and I know (far) better and updated ones! Because, between you and me, a 4-way cut or how to stack for Euchre in 2017, er...
lagoss
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On Nov 16, 2017, AMcD wrote:
Maybe I should write my annotated version...

Hey, after all, I can do most of the moves and I know (far) better and updated ones! Because, between you and me, a 4-way cut or how to stack for Euchre in 2017, er...


Yes.. do it! Now that I’d spend $250 on!
tommy
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Euchre gave rise to the Joker.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Cagliostro
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Out of curiosity, does anyone on this BB know Joe Crist personally or has anyone who posts here actually seen him work. If so, it would be interesting to read a firsthand assessment of him, not this "spoken about him in hushed terms" nonsense. Surely there has to someone here that can lend input to his "legendary" ability.

Also, does anyone think that Erdnase, in his wildest imaginings could have possibly foreseen that his book, EATCT would be more popular in 2017 than it was when he first published it? Or that annotated versions of his work would be published, that a large group of magicians (not gamblers) would seriously discuss him and his book, 99% of whom have not or will not ever hustle at the card table, or that others, to bolster their reputation, would boot strap themselves off his name and his book for their own financial and personal benefit?

If you think about it, this is pretty incredible in its own way.
AMcD
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If you want to meet him Cag, you need to pay for it.

I told you, a genius.
tommy
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We don’t know anybody that has mentioned Erdnase more than Cag has at the gambling spot.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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danny
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Who are the ton of people urging others to get the book? I have seen two, Ricky smith and William kalush. I'm still on the fence but I kind of trust these two, they know their ••••
AMcD
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@danny

They probably know their *** as you say but how are you gonna judge the guy's skills from... photos? How is this project better than any of the 1.256,851 other versions of the EATCT? Why $200 when there is NOTHING else than the original text? What is the added value?

You're ready to pay $200 for learning that Artanis who was his teacher told him that a gypsy told him that Erdnase's real name was Andrews? Geez!
danny
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The allure is the unknown intro I suppose. I think he said he would detail erdnase a shuffle board which he claims very few people know about and some added info on erdnase...it's the unknown that gets people (including me a bit) excited
AMcD
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I really admire your courage.

On his instagram he praises the... slip cut, top of the top technique among card cheats!!! According to the rules we cut cards in actual games for at least 50 years, I'd really like to know how one can do a slip cut! If all his secrets are of the same kind, yeah, I admire your naivety. I really wonder what kind of shuffle he can demonstrate lol.

When will people realize that this book is 115 years old and severely outdated??? It was already outdated in 1902...
lagoss
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On Nov 21, 2017, AMcD wrote:
@danny

They probably know their *** as you say but how are you gonna judge the guy's skills from... photos? How is this project better than any of the 1.256,851 other versions of the EATCT? Why $200 when there is NOTHING else than the original text? What is the added value?

You're ready to pay $200 for learning that Artanis who was his teacher told him that a gypsy told him that Erdnase's real name was Andrews? Geez!


I completely agree. Even if he can do things that are out of this world, how can we possibly benefit from it when the text is EXACTLTY the same as a very outdated book? All we have is photos of him performing those outdated moves. So what!? What more can you possibly learn from it? No matter how good a card handler he is, his knowledge and skill cannot possibly translate from photos of him performing Erdnases exact methods alone.

And in regards to the “oh so generous” foreword he is writing, its just more overly hyped crap. Okay so maybe the info he has on the shuffleboard is useful? Well he talks about it as though it’s some super secret magic bullet that serious card handlers “simply MUST know”! It’s a shuffleboard what more advice can he offer other than “they’re good to practice with...”?

Anyways, it seems to me that people want to justify the purchase by talking up the “thoughtful and overly generous” introduction he’s written. I mean come on! $200 for that. Poker Protection was $50! And people have the hide to say that he’s being generous? To me it’s the exact opposite.

I’ve also seen some card companies advertising the book. Think one of them was the Expert PCC. There’s been some other magicians too but can’t remember off the top of my head.

I strongly feel that this will be one of those books that people get and at first think it’s ‘cool’ and will talk it up but really they will be completely underwhelmed, will get nothing from it and it will sit on their bookshelf gathering dust. But people will still talk it up. Because unfortunately that happens a lot in the magic community.
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