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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
I don't know if this is even the right place to ask, but it seems like people here might know even if it isn't strictly bizarre.
Does anyone know of any traditional forms on Tibetan Conjuring!? I recently read "Net of Magic" by Lee Siegal (AMAZING!) about conjuring in India and about it's relationship to religion (amazingly liminal, totally in-line with the book I'm reading now "Trickster and the paranormal"). But I got to thinking, what about Tibet? Analogies to conjuring are common in Buddhism, so it's clearly a known phenomenon and I have seem some descriptions of terma revealers and other miracles that probably involve conjuring in the way that shamanic work often does, but nothing about descriptions of actual conjurors. I've checked the google machine, asked on a Tibetan Buddhist forum and e-mailed a Tibetan cultural organization all to no response. If conjurors are considered low status, like Jaddoo Wallah, this might make sense, but SOMEONE has to know (...and be willing to tell me!) Any info is greatly appreciated. :-) Thanks
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Thanks, I've seen that, I love it.
Tibetan occultism I know more about, although it's interesting how controversial it can be in American Tibetan Buddhist circles to refer to it as that (I've heard some genuinely hilarious stories of westerns either taking offense or getting scared) and there is so much less available than there is on other things like vajrayana (which, of course, is magic!).
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
morgaine_le_fey Veteran user Montreal, Canada 391 Posts |
Chelman posted extensively on this subject on this very forum.
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 6, 2017, morgaine_le_fey wrote: Really? It's probably my poor search engine skills, but I can't find anything. I did search for "Tibet" in this forum (which brings up "Tibetan" as well) and checked each thread, but I only saw descriptions of Tibetan objects or discussions of Tibetan Buddhism, but not on the practice of magic in Tibet. Is there a thread (or threads) you can point me to?
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
The Curator V.I.P. Beware Vampire, I have 3909 Posts |
Times ago, I posted a lot of routines based on various traditions to no avail. No reaction (but there are 25 pages minimum on Outlaw effects)
It was time consuming to translate all the stories from French to English, so I stopped. But I give you a lead: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=14 http://logs.surnateum.com/loeil-de-shiva-lanneau-de-maya/ This one about Nepal http://logs.surnateum.com/sex-and-drugs-and-monkeys-paw/ and there are far more to find. |
seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Ah yes, I had seen that thread. I love it, and surnateum pages too, thank you.
Still looking for references to traditional Tibetan conjuring, either "shamanic trickery" or actual magic shows, and their place in Tibetan culture. Alas.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
The Curator V.I.P. Beware Vampire, I have 3909 Posts |
Have you tried Oriental Conjuring and magic by Will Ayling?
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
No, I should!
I actually meant to get that while I was reading "Net of Magic" and I completely forgot about it.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
The Curator V.I.P. Beware Vampire, I have 3909 Posts |
The wooden Indian Cups on the cover are in my collection now.
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Caveman Regular user 118 Posts |
What a great question, I've got lots of reading to do now, thanks for bringing this up! And thanks to everyone else posting links to such fascinating information.
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Malakim Loyal user 206 Posts |
Hello,
you might want to get hold of this Book: https://www.amazon.de/Oracles-Demons-Tib......d+Demons Which I want to recomment regarding the Bön Religion and their Magic. Be sure to get a Tibetan Dictionary alongside. This book came to my attention when I visited the Tibet and Nepal area. Since Magic and Occult has been in my interest for quite a while, I was back then also visiting Bön Shamans. The main topic of this visit to the region, apart from Trekking and Mountaineering, was about Magic. This book is a good resource. |
seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Yeah,I probably should read it. I've checked it out of the library more than once, but I have never been able to get into it. I think you're right about the dictionary; I learned the Tibetan alphabet at one point, but could never get the multiple letters and, for the same reason, have trouble with the way this book transliterates Tibetan (ie. astray are spelled). I'm currently playing around learning Ancient Greek (based on an interest in the PGM) but regularly think about trying to get back into learning Tibetan either instead of or additionally.
If I remember correctly it talks a lot about Dorje Shugden. Is that right? That alone would be a particularly interesting read since it was written before the controversy. It doesn't talk about conjuring specifically though does it? When you say your trip was, apart from trekking and mountaineering, about magic, do you mean about conjuring, vajrayana&shamanism or both (shaman-tricks)? Did you see any itinerant performers performing shows, or any lamas or shamans demonstrating their siddhis? Either way I am jealous of your travels.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
Malakim Loyal user 206 Posts |
It is also about Dorje Shugden, yes, but also about a lot of other aspects and Bön deities.
No I was not at all interested in Magic (as in what we talk about here), I am and was interested in the occult magic. During my visit I had some nice experiences, one especially in conjunction with a (probably mostly) Bön funeral/death ceremony. That was a nice stay in a Tibetan village for several days. Also I visited a Lama (I did not find out which school he belonged to) before crossing a high Path (above 5500m) for some "blessing". BUT non tourist real shamans are hard to find and you should bring interest and at least some knowledge in magick (not stage magic) to find them |
Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
There's a lot of cultural crossover among Tibet, Mongolia, and Siberia. The shamanic practices have great similarity.
I found a book once (only 30 copies printed) that was in Tibetan, that was essentially a reprint of material that was recorded around the time that Buddhism entered Tibet, circa 700 CE. I do not recall the title.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 10, 2017, Malakim wrote: No, I do understand. I may have emphasized my lack of familiarity with the book a bit too much. I was only saying that I personally would find the Shugden information interesting in regards to how things have changed. I am not uninterested in Bön dicties, but there is only so much time In each day and as a practitioner of a Buddhist tradition it's not top of my list. Quote:
BUT non tourist real shamans are hard to find and you should bring interest and at least some knowledge in magick (not stage magic) to Given the opportunity I would of course be interested in meeting Tibetan shamans, but that is not my main interest either. As far as occultism and magic; of course there is and always will be more to learn, but I'm good there. As far as Tibetan occultism, I don't find it difficult at all to find. The only interesting thing is that most of the Western practitioners, of HYT for example, have no idea that they are doing occultism and many will be offended if it's suggested (I'm not sure what they think is going on when they ask for both supreme AND relative Siddhis in. ...literally every practice). Many lamas are very happy to teach openly what they know. Still, conjuring (by which I mean the magic that is discussed on this forum) only comes up in the similes.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 10, 2017, Harley Newman wrote: Nice! I have told others how fascinating it is to receive teachings that have been continually practiced since the 8th century (and before). Especially after growing up with 'traditions' like Wicca, Golden Dawn, etc. (which I like!, but one blogger in London put things in perspective by pointing out he had newspapers in his attic that were older than the Golden Dawn). With so many centuries of practice, often by visionaries dedicating their lives to the practice, literally ever concern, doubt or difficulty has already been had, thought of and addressed and is usually mentioned in the course of the teachings!
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Malakim,
Okay! Okay! I'm feeling like a negligent practitioner, so you've shamed me into ordering a copy! ...thank you 😉
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
Malakim Loyal user 206 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 11, 2017, seadog93 wrote: Geez I am sorry, I was far away from anything like this. I hope you will like the Book! |
seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Lol, I'm kidding about the negligent practitioner (well kind of, but that's certainly not your fault, lol!)
You got me thinking about it and I found one for a good deal. It was a sincere thanks.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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