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Eugene Chekhov Elite user ~Magic~ 453 Posts |
Thank you!
I met lior Suchard. We talked about mentalism. We came to one opinion - that any mentalist who uses tricks in his show, actor - who should show people some possibilities. Every mentalist should be able to get out of his stage image and live an ordinary life. This game is all magic is a game. And we just all love to play magic!) I have a rare Derren Brown record - where he shows the usual tricks with spong ball and coins. Before he decided to conquer the world of mentalism. He is a magician. I read in the Café - the mentalist of this is just an expensive jacket. Of course the member joked (maybe someone knows in which topic it was?) No! Mentalism - one of the most difficult areas in magic. Personally, I like all the magic in general - (stage, mental, close up, bizarre, card, kid magic). I can easily switch my programs from one area to another. Perhaps Mindpro - works only in one area of magic. Therefore, it is difficult for him to see all the art of magic as a whole. Thus - he can call himself a mentalist - and I am not. I can call myself a magician - he is not.
I love the magic & history of magic! My favorites magicians - Dai Vernon, Max Malini, Fielding West, Michael Finney, Jeff Hobson, Bob Sheets, Nick Lewin, Harry Murphy, Dick Oslund- great showmen of magic!
* Eugene_Chekhov@yahoo.com |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Man, Bob Cassidy is rolling over in his grave! Now that he's not to here to set yourself straight in a heartbeat, seems no one here wants to listen to anyone else and no actual mentalists care to speak up, but rather just sit back and let this happen. All this magician's talk in the mentalism forum is so sad and speaks volumes to the very trivialization and lack of understanding Bob consistently spoke of and fought for. Magician's thinking like magicians...and pounding their chests like magicians!
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Eugene Chekhov Elite user ~Magic~ 453 Posts |
Bob Cassidy - had his own view of mentalism. But he respected the magicians who perform mentalism. I pity you, because you do not see the world of magic in whole!
You first decided to impose this dialogue on us! Be polite, how polite I am to you! You started spamming! Also were not right! I had a question, but you decided that you can break in and start saying that we are wrong.
I love the magic & history of magic! My favorites magicians - Dai Vernon, Max Malini, Fielding West, Michael Finney, Jeff Hobson, Bob Sheets, Nick Lewin, Harry Murphy, Dick Oslund- great showmen of magic!
* Eugene_Chekhov@yahoo.com |
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solarzar Regular user Solarzar 109 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 9, 2017, Eugene Chekhov wrote: Bottom line the methods are very, very, very different. They cannot be discussed in this forum. The most important element to ask is "is anyone performing either of these, or does anyone have a preference and why". It is based on what is your act; how is your act organized; and which effect would fit best in your act. I have had both, I do not perform either because they do not fit my act. On the issue of magic and mentalism - they are not the same. It isn't opinion, it is just what is. Magic is simply magic: entertainment, fun and mystery. Mentalism has one additional element, the element of possibility. When magic is done in a mentalism act it provides a hook that allows an audience member to say, well the one thing was a trick perhaps the other thing is a trick. If you want to do magic, do magic. Good mentalism provides an extra element for the audience members to question whether it is real or not. That was Bob Cassidy's big point. If you're doing magic, then you are never doing mentalism in your act, regardless of the effect, you are only doing mental magic. Old time magicians who mixed magic and mentalism did it in separate acts so the performing persona would shift. Most of us do not have that luxury. Just my thoughts, Solarzar |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 15, 2017, solarzar wrote: Well of course, Exactly! Not sure why this is so hard for magician's to understand. |
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Eugene Chekhov Elite user ~Magic~ 453 Posts |
Perhaps Mindpro - works only in one area of magic. Therefore, it is difficult for him to see all the art of magic as a whole.
Thus - he can call himself a mentalist - and I am not. I can call myself a magician - he is not. Read my words carefully - dear friend! Just learn to read between the lines! And you will see that there are no contradictions in my words. I can easily switch my program - from magic to mentalism! Historically, mentalism has appeared - as a branch of magic, if you reject this idea, then I have nothing to say to you. I'll just give you books on history and magic. I SHIP YOU THEIR ABSOLUTELY FREE - THIS IS MY GIFT FOR YOU MY FRIEND!
I love the magic & history of magic! My favorites magicians - Dai Vernon, Max Malini, Fielding West, Michael Finney, Jeff Hobson, Bob Sheets, Nick Lewin, Harry Murphy, Dick Oslund- great showmen of magic!
* Eugene_Chekhov@yahoo.com |
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Eugene Chekhov Elite user ~Magic~ 453 Posts |
In response to Bob's thoughts.
I can quote the thoughts of Max Mayvan and Richard Osterlind - about magic and mentalism. I hope you were at them lectures and are familiar with their work! I'm sure that you use hypnosis and psychic techniques - but if you do not use tricks - which were invented for magicians - I'll shake your hand and say that you are a true mentalist. Mindpro: Please give a link to the video of your mental act. And then we'll see - what you use there. I hope you are a practitioner - not an unsubstantiated theorist!
I love the magic & history of magic! My favorites magicians - Dai Vernon, Max Malini, Fielding West, Michael Finney, Jeff Hobson, Bob Sheets, Nick Lewin, Harry Murphy, Dick Oslund- great showmen of magic!
* Eugene_Chekhov@yahoo.com |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Yes, I am quite familiar with Bob Cassidy and Richard Osterlind and the positions and beliefs on magic and mentalism. Both are considered friends and I know and understand exactly where they stand on this and believe your thoughts on their beliefs are simply incorrect or misperceived. Also since you seem to want to talk about things you do not know, it is evident you are unfamiliar with myself, my performances and my positions within the industry. I can understand this, so for this, I'll cut you some slack, but it still doesn't justify you speaking of several different things you actually know little about and are just offering uninformed or perhaps misinformed opinions passing them off as fact.
No I am not or have ever been a magician. I refrain from using tricks or magic props in my performances and T.V. appearances, with rare exception if at all. If you have followed my posts on the Café at all for over a decade you know I absolutely will not post any videos of myself or any other performers, including many that I represent (magicians, mentalists or other), as I truly believe it is the single-most element that has lead to the decline and demise of magic in the last 25 years and is now also affecting mentalism. Sorry, you will just have to do your own research rather than having me provide it for you on a silver platter. Your quote "I hope you are a practitioner - not an unsubstantiated theorist!" clarifies that you are not familiar with my posts here or my positions in the industry as a performer and well as more. No problem, it better clarifies your opinions. So please, you keep working on your tricks and operating from only your own personal level as a magician, and I will continue understanding and operating from an industry perspective and level in the multiple capacities I do. Hopefully some day you will take the time and make the effort to truly see and understand mentalism as it is, rather than through the eyes of magic. It seems you missed my lecture and advanced workshop at Mindvention in Las Vegas a few months ago as much of this very topic was discussed thoroughly from each of the several important perspectives. |
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Eugene Chekhov Elite user ~Magic~ 453 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 17, 2017, Mindpro wrote: I'm doing this! So I turned for help to people who connect magic and mentalism. And this section - just meets these criteria. If you do not know anything - about the tricks of Martin L and Martin B. Instead of just being silent - you started to teach me and express your beliefs. I did not ask for your opinion on mentalism - I asked specifically about the nature of my problem. I'm not offended, but it's just not culturally, break in and talk off topic. You did not stop at me - but began to express their beliefs to other members. Although I asked you not to untie the discussion on the wrong topic. The theme of this stream was the question of comparing the methods of the newspaper of the Koran. If you want to say something off topic - just contact me via PM and I'll listen to you. Your beliefs are not an excuse - to turn a specific topic into a discussion about mentalism.
I love the magic & history of magic! My favorites magicians - Dai Vernon, Max Malini, Fielding West, Michael Finney, Jeff Hobson, Bob Sheets, Nick Lewin, Harry Murphy, Dick Oslund- great showmen of magic!
* Eugene_Chekhov@yahoo.com |
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Eugene Chekhov Elite user ~Magic~ 453 Posts |
You are right - that this section is only for discussing mentalism. But half of the topics in this section are related to magic.
And it's not my fault. If I made a mistake with the section - there's nothing to worry about, to ask the moderator - to move my topic to another section. I believe! - that the main principle of our communication is to help each other.
I love the magic & history of magic! My favorites magicians - Dai Vernon, Max Malini, Fielding West, Michael Finney, Jeff Hobson, Bob Sheets, Nick Lewin, Harry Murphy, Dick Oslund- great showmen of magic!
* Eugene_Chekhov@yahoo.com |
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FJR Regular user London 129 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 9, 2017, Eugene Chekhov wrote: Hi Eugene, I can't speak to the second product as I don't own it, but the first, by Martin Breese, is a well-made tool to help facilitate either a prediction effect, as Martin does in the video you link to, or a mind-reading effect (without the prediction), if you'd prefer. It is very straightforward indeed and allows you to focus on the important stuff like presentation and performance. It is rather clever/devious. Like everything, there are limitations. So you wouldn't want to perform this twice for the same people (though this is true of many performance pieces/effects). It is well-produced too. And by the way, you don't have to do the counting like that as done in the video, if you think some audience-members might think this suspicious, or you might yourself feel it compromises the 'cleanness' of the effect. You could, for example, just lay the pieces down scattered about and ask a spectator to pick any piece they like. Many may think this is a fairer way to arrive at a chosen piece of magazine. I recommend it (and for what it's worth, my dealings with Martin Breese International have always been impeccable with great service.) I hope this helps. Very best, Francis
Flaneur / Gentleman Amateur
Member of the I.B.M - Ring 25 |
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FJR Regular user London 129 Posts |
I just rewatched the trailer for the Martin Lewis effect. I hadn't seen it in a while. Without saying too much, it does appear to have some advantages over the Breese effect, in that certain things he does (or appears to do) couldn't be done with the Breese effect.
Though, if you decide not to go for either, then, as someone else mentioned above, you could always go for for one of my absolute favourite effects which is much cheaper - 'C**p L***'! Oh, and Looch has just released his effect 'The Article' which is ingenious for long-term predictions and other marvels, but it is a very different beast to the ones you specify (and the Koran original). Very best, Francis
Flaneur / Gentleman Amateur
Member of the I.B.M - Ring 25 |
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Eugene Chekhov Elite user ~Magic~ 453 Posts |
Greetings to you Francis!
Thank you for your thoughts! And a link to Looch products, it will be in my shopping cart very soon!
I love the magic & history of magic! My favorites magicians - Dai Vernon, Max Malini, Fielding West, Michael Finney, Jeff Hobson, Bob Sheets, Nick Lewin, Harry Murphy, Dick Oslund- great showmen of magic!
* Eugene_Chekhov@yahoo.com |
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Stunninger Inner circle 2819 Posts |
Hi Eugene,
In case you've not checked out Banachek's recent release on headline predictions, it's really good, with 4 different handlings taught: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/8635 |
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Eugene Chekhov Elite user ~Magic~ 453 Posts |
Thank you Stunninger!
I bought it. As you know, there are two kinds of effect. Headline Prediction Newspaper Test As for Headline Prediction. This is a separate topic. I did it several times. Different ways. Which I found in the books. And so after talking with several magicians. I can say that the version of Martin Lewis is Stop The Press. This is the best version on the market - the prepared newspapers. Thank you Francis! But there is a significant problem. All these newspapers are made in English. Therefore, if you live in another country, this does not work for you. This topic had a difficult beginning - but I'm glad that real-thinking professionals helped in my question. Thank you, guys!
I love the magic & history of magic! My favorites magicians - Dai Vernon, Max Malini, Fielding West, Michael Finney, Jeff Hobson, Bob Sheets, Nick Lewin, Harry Murphy, Dick Oslund- great showmen of magic!
* Eugene_Chekhov@yahoo.com |
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paul180 Loyal user 219 Posts |
Eugene, never mind the trolls who try to pass themselves off as such experts. Different strokes for different folks and as has been said time and time again in penny, it is possible to do tricks as a mentalist. Just ask Osterlind, Blaine, Dunninger and Kreskin. Cassidy was a purest and while he did contribute to our art, his way wasn't the only way.
As far a newspaper tests go, I used to like the CT method described in PME but alas the days of performing that are over for me.
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a foolish man can learn from a wise answer.
Attributing negativity to a topic or post doesn't make the topic or post negative, it shines a light on the negativity of the person or persons, making the attributions. BEWARE these Debbie downers and anything they say. They simply lack the self esteem or good will, to be positive or productive. Your belief in self, is more important and is all that matters, for your success to be glorious. |
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Eugene Chekhov Elite user ~Magic~ 453 Posts |
Thanks for the kind words! You're right!
But I am also pleased with his reverent attitude towards his teacher and his ideas. Many mentalists look at magic - as fun and funny tricks. But this is far from the case. Combining knowledge of magic and the principles of mentalism - - that's what I love. Paul - Do you mean the Hugard version(PME)? Did you leave the stage?
I love the magic & history of magic! My favorites magicians - Dai Vernon, Max Malini, Fielding West, Michael Finney, Jeff Hobson, Bob Sheets, Nick Lewin, Harry Murphy, Dick Oslund- great showmen of magic!
* Eugene_Chekhov@yahoo.com |
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paul180 Loyal user 219 Posts |
Do you mean the Hugard version(PME)? No on page 30 in the "Publicity Effects" section. I had to look it up.
I didn't do stage mentalism although for some of my corporate clients I did perform a combo mentalism/hypno act in their auditorium. I have always been more comfortable up close and personal.
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a foolish man can learn from a wise answer.
Attributing negativity to a topic or post doesn't make the topic or post negative, it shines a light on the negativity of the person or persons, making the attributions. BEWARE these Debbie downers and anything they say. They simply lack the self esteem or good will, to be positive or productive. Your belief in self, is more important and is all that matters, for your success to be glorious. |
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Eugene Chekhov Elite user ~Magic~ 453 Posts |
Yes, for sure Paul!
It's interesting to hear your thoughts in the Magic Café!
I love the magic & history of magic! My favorites magicians - Dai Vernon, Max Malini, Fielding West, Michael Finney, Jeff Hobson, Bob Sheets, Nick Lewin, Harry Murphy, Dick Oslund- great showmen of magic!
* Eugene_Chekhov@yahoo.com |
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 12, 2017, Mindpro wrote: I was about to get a little upset at Mindpro, but this post is truly funny.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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