Hi good morning.

I think it'd be interesting to have a thread about how private games work in US and in Europe. Is it legal to hold private games at all? Is so, is there a upper limit on the bet?
In China, there are places where you can play cards or mahjiong for which only small bet is allowed. These places are called room of chess and cards though no one plays chess there, and they are considered entertainment places, sort of like arcade alleys. Also, you can plays cards and mahjiong with family and friends for small bet.
All other forms of private games are illegal; however it doesn't mean there is no private games existing in China. There are high bet private games held by gangs underground. It's very dangerous to cheat in these games, and if you found yourself being hustled, you couldn't sue them. Not only you wouldn't be able to get your money back, you put yourself in a dangerous place. If things get media and police's attention, usually the whole group will be arrested.
Is it similar in US and Europe. Are private games protected by law? Can you get your money back if you have evidence that you've been hustled?
Thanks a lot.

In the U.S.A. and Canada, private games are legal as long as there is absolutely no financial compensation made to anybody to host, or otherwise accommodate the game.
You can't charge for entry, take a rake, or otherwise take any financial compensation from any of the players.

You can't charge a "membership fee" to belong to a club, and then have that club host players who are gambling.
You can't supply beer and wine, or hard liquor to be sold at a "small profit" to the players.
You can't sell food that has a mark-up on it.

In short, nobody can make a single penny outside of the pot being awarded to the player with the best hand.

It has to be as simple as five friends sitting around a table playing for the pot. It even gets nebulous if those five friends "kick-in" 5 bucks each to cover the hosts hospitality, even if it's for such things as clean-up, toilet paper, or just as a "thanks" for hosting the game.

There is no provision for policing or enforcement in a private game. If you get hustled, you're likely completely out of luck from a legal perspective. Having said that, in the U.S. one can initiate a legal undertaking (sue) pretty much anybody they want to. Not so much in Canada.
Not sure you'd see any success though, and I've personally never heard of anybody winning such a case.

Private games in updated sawdust joints can still be pretty dangerous as well as completely illegal, as we see here, such venues still pop up on a regular basis - this one in Canada just recently: http://www.timescolonist.com/news/b-c/b-......22016855

I don't know the details about such things in Europe, but suspect they may be similarly enforced from a legal standpoint.

Thanks Mr. Bones for the info.

It's interesting that the host can't take any compensations. Don't they levy "tax" on the winners of the game? I see almost no incentive for the host to have any games except for he being one of the players and good enough to be confident to win at least to cover the cost of hosting.

That article you shared sounds like it's the kidnapping and other more violent crimes that seriously brought the police's attention.

Invariably, private gambling establishments remain secretive precisely until something (most often violence) brings the establishment to the attention of the authorities.

Bones, it is virtually impossible to keep a regular professional gaming house secret from the Gambling Commission, etcetera. The essential difference between the amateur and the professional is the professional goes public. It is one thing for them to know and another for them to prove it is a professional gaming house. Certain things one must and must not do to get away with it. First one must have the game in a home. A home can be anywhere where somebody lives and there must be evidence that somebody lives there. Well, we are too busy right now to go into it.

Tommy.

Later

Https://www.quora.com/What-are-good-ways......ker-room

We have not read it all but we can tell that he is one who knows from the first few things he says.

I agree. this is a very good explanation on how to run a poker game, illegal or not.

I read it through. There are many terms that I don't understand. Looks like a lot of effort and he hasn't started talking about the risks and consequences of being raided by the police.

My two cents would be that it is useless to talk about "the risks and consequences of being raided by the police", because there are many factors that come into play. The country, region, popularity, size, estimated income and so on.

The law of the land means each land has its own laws. the laws they are a changing and sentences are in the lap of the Gods, etcetera. In short, we do not know but we think that here in England a third-time loser might get a short prison sentence but normally it is a fine.

I remember a game I used to play in

Located in a bar basement
That part of the building was not liscenced

However, there were 3 tables
Booze was sold (without a permit)
Rake was taken (illegal once again)
Every one was smoking (illegal once more)

There was also a separate table for 4 old timers who liked to bet on a different game, akin to Rummy

Once every so often, cops would come downstairs

The owner would great them with a warm handshake
Following a quick visit to the office, they would leave

And we kept playing

This went on for years

What took them down was the smoking, not the gambling

But as far as Canada is concerned, what was mentioned above is true:
If the organizer of a game makes even a penny of profit, it becomes illegal

What kind of rake-off was running? Per table and per hour?

Rake was per hand

The games were mainly 1/2
Max 5$ per pot

Which can be tough to beat at times
Most players who left with money really only made enough to cover the rake they paid throughout the night

When they did the occasional 2/5, the rake capped at 10$ per hands


The 2/5 was easier to beat
Both the players and the rake

I eventually picked up dealer shifts in those exact games
I was the only person at the table making money after that
I got tips and a pourcentage of the rake

Private gaming houses have time fees for high stakes games normally rather than a % rake, which varies like in the local casino from which they take their lead for prices and procedures etcetera. The small games in casinos may cost ie.

The Empire Casino London.

No Limit Texas Hold'em - £1/£1 blinds 10% the pot, capped at £5
No Limit Texas Hold'em - £1/£2 blinds and above 5% of pot, capped at £10.
Omaha games 5% of pot, capped at £7
Two final things for you to remember: If the hand does not reach the flop, no rake is taken - "no flop, no drop"

Casino poker is now 24/7 and cash game table stakes are as little £25 and one gets a free breakfast.

Thanks guys. I find those figures huge! 1/2 games with $5 rake or, like tommy up to £10, how do you make money as a player? The only one making money is the house.

tommy, £25 stake, for a 1/2 game? How long do you last, lol. 8 rounds?

@AMcD
There is no money to be made for the player

At least in low stakes games

The stakes here are 50$ minimum
That's for the casinos games

Private games tend to require 50$ to sit as well

@Card_Flips

Yes, no way that a player can make any money with such a rake rate!

I would not sit at a 1/2 NLHE cash game under $100, but more surely with $200! Moreover with the rake-off figures you guys mention.

The tables have always been the biggest winner but we are now awash with casinos which make it harder for private gaming houses to get a game.

Exactly

Casinos or state regulated card rooms that provide free food while you play have all but killed underground or private games

Everything else in invite only

And good luck getting someone to bring you to one of those