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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Blockchain for original concept protection? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

jeffl
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(I'm OK if this needs to be moved to another category, it's just that I kinda thought a lot of the folks who might be interested in this would be "hanging out" here.)

So did you ever hear of the Ethical and Fair Creators Association? Probably not, it appears to be a French startup. They have a concept that does look kind of interesting though,
and it appears that they've developed a way of using blockchain technology to protect and encrypt timestamped files including videos. This has the potential to create an incorruptible
record of an event where the timestamp is actually totally secure and cannot be altered. I'm no legal expert (and I can't see how right now this outfit necessarily has any "special standing"
for example in any given court of law) but it seems like it certainly couldn't HURT to submit a video to these folks as a means to establish priority for purposes of copyright. I have no relationship to them and cannot comment on the viability of their business model and I'm really more interested in the general concept and whether it seems to anyone else that this kind of "service" could be helpful, your thoughts? (I'm assuming of course that they're totally on the up-and-up ethically!)

https://macrostarter.net/9-idea/2-macros......up-ideas
jeffl
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Uh, I sort of thought I'd at least get a reply or two before this got moved, and this certainly isn't where I expected this to go (what part of "protecting the material in my act" ISN'T part and parcel of magic?), so I guess I was kind of misunderstood here. Isn't there anyone reading this who even knows what I'm talking about?? If you come up with new material and video it and claim it's protected by copyright and you wind up having to defend it in court then you will need to have a way to prove the "date/time on the video" is REALLY when it was taken. Even saying "well this is the date that Youtube or whoever has on the file" MIGHT NOT be accepted by the court because you would need to demonstrate to the court something called "chain of custody" of the timestamp "associated with" that file, and that's a really weak "defense" to the court. With this new technique you've sent the video to EFCA (uploaded it online?) and you get it back and the record you're presenting to the court is a file that has been "encrypted with" that timestamp and there's actually NO WAY that time can be "faked" later, so this is a real BREAKTHROUGH in that this technology has never been available before to creators, just mostly to people who transact in Bitcoin and a few others. OK can I get some comments NOW?
NYCTwister
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It's hard to understand exactly what it is that you're saying.

As a further way to prove ownership it could be helpful.
As a start-up they have a LONG way to go before they're relevant.

I don't think this will get moved since it doesn't just pertain to magic.

This is kind of a dry topic so I don't know how many will reply. Maybe Lobo will chime in. He has a brain that's particularly suited to sorting legal intricacies.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
jeffl
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Not sure what you meant by "as a start-up they have a LONG way to go before they're relevant", I don't think they're trying to become a giant commercial enterprise, maybe more like Wikipedia which is pretty relevant to most of us, and yes THEY'RE at a decent scale but is that scale a large component of their relevance (ie were they not important until they achieved their current scale)? I would argue not, and that so long as EFCA's technology is valid for the legal purpose intended by the user of their services, and if they're the ONLY provider of the service which provides that exact legal function, who really cares how old or large they are? (Oh I agree with your comment about a "dry topic" but I know there are Café members with law degrees who think A LOT about this subject - I've seen it on their websites, in fact that's kind of where I personally learned something like this was needed in the first place - but I'm thinking they probably haven't found this post yet, was a little concerned this may not be the "obvious" place to look for it but I suppose after it gets indexed by Google it'll be OK.) So thanks for checking in NYCTwister, I really do appreciate your comments!
WitchDocChris
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I can see this as being useful to someone who wanted to pursue legal action in the case of a copycat - but I also have strong doubts that it will become common place at all. The simple fact is that a very small percentage of magicians actually have the money to pursue legal action of this sort at all, as well as an act that is iconic enough to give them a leg to stand on in a court case.
Christopher
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Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
jeffl
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Chris, do you mean like Teller did for his rose? The premise ought to be that this type of protection would be inexpensive enough that anyone who thought they had something to protect ought to have their act submitted for this type of protection just in case. It's also just possible that if the alleged perpetrator has deep pockets and it's "open and shut" then it might be possible to find an attorney who would take the case on contingency. Again nothing in life is certain but it's better to be careful and have some protection than to throw caution to the wind and get ripped off.
WitchDocChris
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I am referring to Shadows, yes.

The legal fees associated with going to court are what I'm concerned with, rather than the cost of having a video as proof on this service.

The fee associated with hosting the video on this service will be only one portion of it, and it will not make many cases "open and shut" I suspect. Given the frequency of independent creation (I've done it myself, as I'm sure many others have) - the accuser would have to be able to prove that the defendant actually stole the act from the accuser, and also that the accuser genuinely suffered some kind of damages because of it.

Most likely it would be very expensive and I doubt the vast majority of magicians will be able to handle that financially.
Christopher
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Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
jeffl
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Well right, I expected a certain amount of "skepticism" about the announcement, after all "EFCA" isn't exactly a household name. Maybe I was a bit premature here.

As of today it appears there could be another option here soon. Has anyone ever heard about this other obscure company that does something or other in the field of photography called Kodak?

https://www.kodak.com/kodakone/default.htm
Jonathan Townsend
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It's not whether or not someone claims novelty but rather the relative cost/benefits of legal action.

The entertainment community is small and the dramatic works copyright process looks pretty good as is.

Lots of blockchain and ICO activity - no idea about the investment quality but enjoy your adventures.

The idea of computer network activity running on the same computer as you keep what you want kept private... looks like claiming the right hand does not even know if there's a left hand - curious.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
jeffl
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Jonathan, clearly if someone DID find himself motivated to "go the legal route" given all the money he'd have to put in it he'd want to take reasonable steps in advance to have a copyright date PROVABLE in court right? That's the main point here.

Yes I too am quite wary of all this ICO activity, given the unstable nature of these currencies to date I would want to hope that any outfit offering these services "accepts payment in dollars" but it's too early to tell. (I will aver that the most bearish of the so-called analysts are wrong, none of these currencies are "likely to drop in value to zero" since they will always retain SOME value as a medium of exchange for various sorts of illicit transactions, and the parties involved - arguably the nastiest of the "bad guys" - certainly are not going to allow that to happen! I wonder if the inventor of this concept anticipated this "feature"?) Really all I'm saying is that blockchain INDEPENDENT of the financial component is such an obvious vehicle to validate creation dates that it's bound to find a home somewhere, maybe it's one I've already identified or maybe not.

I'm not sure why you made the other comment, there's such a variety of "digital wallets" for just that purpose that it seems to be a non-issue. (I am however getting rather concerned about digital security, with all the recent commotion about Meltdown and Spectre it's distracted attention from the issue that I still can't get my motherboard vendor to release a BIOS patch to cure my machine's vulnerability to something called SA-00086. If you don't know what that is then please go to Wikipedia and look up the rather obscure topic of Intel Management Engine, if you're not familiar with it your computer's motherboard chipset contains a second computer that runs even when your main computer is turned off and runs code that is deliberately publicly undocumented and it apparently has code modules capable of doing all sorts of obscure things like enforcing DRM from the DMCA, and THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN BE ALLOWED TO DISABLE IT LEGALLY IS TO PROVE THAT YOUR MACHINE BELONGS TO THE GOVERNMENT. Wasn't so long ago this would have been called "tinfoil hat" stuff and talking like this would be sufficient to get you committed to an asylum but now...? PLEASE go read the article yourself before proceeding with your ROTFL because this isn't like that!)
jeffl
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Holy cow, back to the original subject, even IBM's getting into the act, as part of an international agreement to use blockchain to enforce music copyrights! So the entertainment industry is too small to get attention from big corporations? Not really!

https://www.ibm.com/blogs/insights-on-bu......t-dream/
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
Lose the private key and the box is gone forever because the owner can’t drill into the box or have a new key made. Making things even more secure is that engraved for the ages inside each box is a list of every previous owner. So a blockchain user gets both security and transparency.


One person says safety - someone else yells porn and demands a backdoor to save the world - still two additional blackbox processes on your PC. I can just about imagine this stuff baked into the firmware on network cards.

The loader menu item was a surprise. Gotta love backdoors sold as security - since 2008?

Blockchain to protect original works is a fine idea - may as well try it on blogs and get the larger works into protection for quotes, pictures etc.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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Here you go folks - P2P round two ... blockchain as normal investment activity:
https://bananacoin.io/

This puts the OP suggestion right into our "save your distinctive routines into this secure format for secure reference later" practical product. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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Https://media.ccc.de/v/34c3-9270-dude_yo......re#t=208

it's a known problem - all the way back to the source video camera? that has "other" issues.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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Small update on p2p -> blockchain -> ?citizen

https://steemit.com/eternalblue/@habra/p......rnalblue

that's how to from long ago - I'm thinking "baked in" as a feature comes next cry for "secure" computing.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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