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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Eisenhower was a wise man, but his advice was not heeded, and now Europe depends on our military like a junkie depends on a dealer.
As for imaginary boogie men, Putin seems not too imaginary to me. But that still misses the point. The point is that Jack's list (and Jack: you darn well know that I can follow the argument) is flawed because the USA cannot implement the same policies as Denmark for a host of reasons, the not least of which is size. Universal health care is a lot less complicated to provide in a country with a population less than the metropolitan area of Chicago. And Chicago doesn't bother because it's easier to hope that the federal government will foot the bill. Chicago doesn't have to have it's own military, either. The federal government of the USA has become a big cookie jar for cities, states, and other countries (and yes--dictators and bad people), and I doubt that the solution is to make the cookie jar bigger. But let's change subjects. As far as I know, neither has Denmark gone completely organic. And although I eat a mostly vegetarian and organic diet myself, I don't think it's keeping me from going on a rampage. Landmark and I have very similar political views, but I disagree that shooting rampages are the symptom of failed public policy. In 2011, Norway--one of those Scandinavian countries we so admire, suffered a rampage that cost 77 lives. These people who go on rampages are freaks, anomalies, exceptions. They are disturbed, twisted, alienated. They are not the measure of a community's laws, because they are outlaws. Organic food will not save us from maniacs. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
The implementation of universal healthcare has nothing to do with size. We already have Medicare; we already have Medicaid; we already have Social Security, the groundwork is already there. It can be done federally, or it can be done state by state. The present bar to such care is strictly political, with the moneyed insurance and pharma special interest groups blocking it, despite polls showing the majority of Americans in favor of a universal healthcare system.
If these shooting sprees are caused by mentally ill people as some claim, then proper healthcare, stable home lives, proper diet, supportive and same surrounding society, and absence of a culture which glorifies violence are all key to ameliorating the problem. BTW how many of these shooters were vets? I'd wager a far higher percentage than the general population. And really, Stone, you're comparing one incident by a White Nationalist Nazi in Denmark to what has become an almost weekly occurrence in the US? You could take all the mass shootings in Europe for the past decade and it probably would end up being a smaller number than the US for a year.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Europe does depend on us like a junkie needs a dealer, but that makes us a drug dealer.
Is that what we want to be? Obviously it's good business, especially since it's legal. And it's not just Europe; the whole world feeds off of our weapons. Is that what we want to be? Apparently so. We give lip service to peace, but our actions show the opposite. The global situation is very complicated, with a revolving door of allies and enemies; but the underlying objectives are simple - or should be. Let's say that we switch to a policy of non-intervention. What happens then? Does Putin suddenly run amok? Maybe, and it will lead to a period of chaos; but chaos is what we have now and there's no end in sight. We withdraw as many troops as possible and close as many useless bases as possible What happens then? Some say we'd be seen as weak, but actually we'd be bringing ourselves more in line with what the vast majority of the world wants - which is less violence and more spending on what's really needed. Suddenly we're not seen as aggressors but as true advocates for peace. Landmarks point that these shootings are a symptom of a society is well taken. One of the problems we face is that our problems are all connected, but we treat them as individual situations. We are a country of pill poppers, that eat food which is basically poison, and live in fear of having their life ruined by people they don't really know. Add to that the cumulative effect of an education system that focuses on the wrong things, in the wrong ways, and you have a society that's in crisis; and has been for a long time. A society that is more and more frustrated; a frustration that manifests in what some seem to think are anomalies, but they're not. It's not surprising to me that these shootings are occurring. To me it's surprising that they're not worse and more frequent. I've seen, many times, the effects that these drugs have on people. One of my good friends, a very high strung individual, listened to his family and went for counseling. Without much actual counseling he was diagnosed with "anxiety" and placed on Xanax and Ativan. Almost overnight he became a stranger. His anxiety was replaced by apathy, and for the first time in his life he thought of suicide. Now I don't even know him. He was high strung but he was also passionate; now he doesn't care about anything. Except making sure his prescriptions are filled on time. Btw, further "counseling" sessions only resulted in an increase of the drugs which clearly didn't work. We've become a society where more and more people are just like him, so it's not surprising to me that people who are frustrated and apathetic resort to violence. When people like that have access to the weapons that they do you get mass shootings. Simple cause and effect. We're all agreed that we need to address the causes, we just can't agree how. These people are crazy, for various reasons, but dealing with the effects - such as we are - without really looking for the truth about the causes only makes things worse.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Many medications have warnings, much like do not drink and drive warnings, but I have never seen a warning about guns. The only time we hear about guns here in England is on the news when somebody has been shot.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Many of them have warnings about sudden mood swings, increased or NEW anxiety or depression, aggression, hallucinations, and almost all of them warn about suicidal thoughts.
Of course they are approved by the bought and owned FDA, which is a great comfort...to the drug dealers.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 16, 2017, landmark wrote: That's probably true. But I'm one of the people who thinks that the ease of obtaining firearms in the USA is one of the contributing factors, and I don't think the lack of universal health care (which I support) is one of the contributing factors. I think where we disagree most on this issue is that better education and healthcare could significantly mitigate the situation. Evil exists. Evil people exist. But I don't have any answers, and I'm not particularly confident that anyone else does, either. |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 16, 2017, stoneunhinged wrote: It's not so much lack of universal health care as an incorrect approach to health in general. Evil just exists, and evil people just exist are, no offense, toothless statements. Evil has a cause.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 16, 2017, NYCTwister wrote: Vanity exists. "Evil" has a subject, object, context, and ... a book deal with option for cable network miniseries with options for prequels.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Evil has a cause and the cure is not ignoring it or letting others deal with it.
The idea that universal health care is the solution to every problem that exists is silly. I get it. It is a great political strategy to always push for it as if it somehow will cure all and eventually people start to buy into the idea that giving up rights is the solution. It is ridiculous and I am happy it is being seen fir that. So you cut the military by 80% and give everyone free health care and take everyone's right to everything and force employers to pay a guarantee wage to anyone no matter skill level and utopia is moving along and Putin knocks off mosof Europe and turns an eye to us. Maybe while he is messing about in Europe one of the other imaginary boogie men comes knocking on our door. Now what? That is my question. Now what? One good thing is your utopian dreams include very affordable legal drugs because I might need to be high during this. Sorry but you can not just pretend evil does not exist on a grand scale. The idea that somehow we create dictators and all the bs rehoric is meaningless. Stomp and cry all you want and cherry pick all the little facts that prove your point out of context while you can. Because once utopia is here you won't even be able to do so. Utopia is a fantasy. It always wins when compared to reality which is why it is such an endearing and dangerous fantasy. But keep dreaming guys.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Danny, what do you think the cause of evil is?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Evil is a convenient constrict WE live by. It doesn't exist per se. It is simply how we define it.
For example many believe sex with very young is evil. Some cultures believe differently for whatever reasons. That is one difficulty. But then you have globally unacceptable behavior. Mass killing, genocide and other things that are pretty cut and dry. What can cause a man to rise to power and want to slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocent people? Is there a cause you can point to? I don't know. Too many birds on his antenna, I don't know. Ultimatly in that case is it relevant? We can't go back and figure that out in other cultures because we need to mind our own business in your opinion. So the point is a madman gets power. I mean real power. (Like that doesn't happen right?) Now what? The cause is something that only matters later if you survive. How do you think stopping a guy like that is possible once we have decimated our military. It takes generations to ramp it up. Not years, generations. What happens to us when we can't meet the threats? Clearly they exist in the world and you may have a different viewpoint but we don't create all of the bad guys in the world. So how do we and others we defend survive? Because you only get one shot at it. You can teach your kid never to fight and always walk away no matter what. You can tell them it will be ok always just ignore the problem. But not everyone is lucky enough to walk in between rain drops and not be hurt. Sometimes bad things find you and it isn't a bad thing to be prepared for. If you never get into a car accident should you drop your coverage by 80%? If you are healthy today should you not have health insurance? Sorry but life happens and when it does being prepared is the key. Now I do agree within that framework there is a LOT of room for improvement. That is an understatement. But to completely make blanket statements about cuts and all the bs rehoric is just not even close to true.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
At the dawn of the scientific revolution ushered in by the Space Age, was President Dwight D. Eisenhower wary of growing government influence over science and technology. That included growing government influence over medication which Huxley predicted would be used by the global elite to control the masses. Lest we forget the state-run MK Ultra project and so on. Yet Jack is calling for state-run medication.
All evil is about, taking people away from reality.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 16, 2017, tommy wrote: Actually, that's pretty profound.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
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The idea that universal health care is the solution to every problem that exists is silly. ? Whoever said that ? Agreed, it certainly won't improve one's Second Deal, or get you tickets to the Super Bowl . However, the issue is serial killing. If, as you claim, it is a question of mental health, then it's not unreasonable to posit that universal access to healthcare in practice, not just theory, would be a positive step.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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gallagher Inner circle 1168 Posts |
Actually,
Art is about taking people away from reality. The calculated alteration of nature. With it, we can explore other possiblites and dimensions, ...inspire change. Something only Humans are capable of, ...in their greatest moments. Using 'evil' as a convenient constrict, is exactly that(!). Constricting. The christian church has played with it for years. 'guilt', 'fear', 'threat from the un-known'... I feel ripe enough, to move on. It might be nice to try 'love': 'striving for completeness', thru each other; as a motivation to live by. I'm willing to take the chance, that more folks would like helping another,.. than helping themselves. Look at the direction we are going, believing 'the other'. gallagher p.s.: Instead of merely existing, in reality; I find it a good thing, analyzing it, and using the data to change,...improve. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Actually, modern Art is eviler and if anybody finds any in his attack a few years from now, they will throw it out with the other rubbish because they will not know the difference.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 17, 2017, landmark wrote: Mass murderers. Let's keep terms right. Access to health care might be a positive step. That is a far cry from universal health care will help solve the problem. How ridiculous.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
The thing about nuts is they are not always nuts: I mean people can go nuts for a few seconds.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 17, 2017, tommy wrote: On schedule? On cue? Are they the same person an hour later? At times justice appears severe and expensive. Or perhaps those are moments of madness too?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 16, 2017, stoneunhinged wrote: The most surprising comment, (to me), in this post was, "Landmark and I have very similar political views". I never would have thought that in a million years. And the rest of the post was so well thought out and rational that it makes me believe it even less! |
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