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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Table hoppers & party strollers » » Approaching patrons WITHOUT manager's knowledge/approval (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

BCE
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Does this approach work? I don't think it has ever been discussed on here (has it?) Why wouldn't a restaurant manager want help with making their dining experience more memorable? Suppose I'm approaching a table who hates the service, hates the food, and is probably entering a 1-star Yelp review as I approach the table - why would it be *bad* or inappropriate to make their experience a little more memorable.

Just wondering, thanks.
Dannydoyle
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You're of course assuming the magician is going to be good. Otherwise it is just one more thing to bash.

But if you want to approach a restaurant manager with the concept that everything but you will be bad give it a shot.

Once someone hates service and food at a restaurant do you think a 4 ace routine will help? What exactly will that change the star rating on Yelp to do you think?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TheAmbitiousCard
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Not everyone wants to be approached.
Especially when trying to enjoy a quiet meal and relax.
Not to mention, most magicians exude a "magician's persona" and frankly, many don't like it at all.

Just when they think they can relax.... surprise!!!


Hi I'm billy bob, what's your name?
Uh, Ed.

Perfect, Ed! Is that your wife?
Uh, yeah. But we....

Perfect! Hi miss, I'm here on a mission of mercy.
Uh, ok! Can you refill my water glass?

I'm a magician. Having a good night?
We were but...

Perfect! So did anyone drop a white knife?
Uh, no!

Perfect! How about a black one?
Clever. Now ...

Awesome! Now which one of you has a $100 dollar bill.. hahaha. how about a $20? hahaha how about......

.....and on, and on, and on.


Some people just want to eat by themselves and the restaurant might also want it that way.
I'd ask before doing that in someone else's restaurant.
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MeetMagicMike
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The title of this post is:

Quote:
Approaching patrons WITHOUT manager's knowledge/approval


I'm curious about what you mean by "does this approach work?".

Are you a customer of the restaurant? Are you a waiter? Busboy? Lurker?

What is it that you hope to get out of the situation? Tips? The joy of performing?
Magic Mike

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Mary Mowder
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It sounds like a form of trespassing to me.

The establishment has a right to give the vibe they want or even a default one.

I will occasionally do some impromptu Magic in various places but it would not occur to me to plan to perform at a restaurant without permission.

Perhaps I misunderstood the question.

-Mary Mowder
Dannydoyle
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I didn't focus on the idea of not having management approval because he didn't mention it in the body of the post.

I can't imagine why you would want to involve yourself in such a situation in te first place. As far as the manager goes I can't imagine why he would want you involved for any reason. It has not been discussed because it is just not good.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Keith Raygor
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BCE,
Are you there as a patron? Or as an already-hired magician? Knowing that will help with answering your questions.
Mary Mowder
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Possibly an employee who sees an opportunity to do a few tricks?

-Mary Mowder
BCE
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Quote:
On Oct 12, 2017, Keith Raygor wrote:
BCE,
Are you there as a patron? Or as an already-hired magician? Knowing that will help with answering your questions.


At the restaurant as a patron.

Lots of diners at restaurants talk to each other. Okay, not "lots." But it's not terribly uncommon, either.

I come from a background rooted in the "punk"/D.I.Y. ethic - i.e., demonstrating that I can do it BEFORE I ask. Because if I can't show the manager that I already helped with his or her business, that I already have a rapport with regular patrons, then I have no business ever asking for a moment of his or her time. I'm perplexed as to why this "approach" is deemed so problematic: it's textbook m.o. for bands getting signed. What exempts restaurant magic from the same rationale?
TheRealMagicMike
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I want to understand this... but, I just don't.

Do bands "crash" venues and just start playing to prove that people will like them? I'm not sure I understand this.

As far as magic goes, you would be a customer with no other attachment to the restaurant, talking to another customer who is presumably upset about something. Who knows, he may want to see a good magic trick, but I can't imagine how that would make him feel better about poor food, bad service, etc... especially from someone who is just another customer. I would think most restaurant/bar managers would be upset if you represented yourself to another customer as having a connection to the restaurant, when in fact you don't.

If you're talking about frequenting a place that you'd like to work and do a few tricks to the server or bartender and little by little become known, liked and respected as a customer and a magician which might lead to them hiring you, then that's worth talking about... otherwise, I'm confused.
Dannydoyle
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I'm very confused and the explanation made me more confused not less. You demonstrate your value in the selling process, not by randomly approaching customers and trying to speak for the restaurant.

What you would be demonstrating is very unprofessional behavior.

By DIY do you mean handy man stuff? Because if you just showed up to paint my garage and I was not the one who hired you they're would be a very serious problem. I have never heard of our hired a person based on this behavior.

Bands are hired with contracts, even punk bands. And you're right not lots of patrons talk to each other. That alone should be the answer.

Also what do you do, wait until a serious problem happens then just jump in before the manager gets there?

I can imagine hating the food and service and decor and then you jumping up and saying "pick a card". You really can't see this being a problem for the management?

This has got to be a joke. I think we have fallen for it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
BCE
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Quote:
On Oct 12, 2017, TheRealMagicMike wrote:

If you're talking about frequenting a place that you'd like to work and do a few tricks to the server or bartender and little by little become known, liked and respected as a customer and a magician which might lead to them hiring you, then that's worth talking about...


Yes, this is what I had in mind, as you describe it.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Oct 12, 2017, BCE wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 12, 2017, TheRealMagicMike wrote:

If you're talking about frequenting a place that you'd like to work and do a few tricks to the server or bartender and little by little become known, liked and respected as a customer and a magician which might lead to them hiring you, then that's worth talking about...


Yes, this is what I had in mind, as you describe it.


This has been discussed a whole lot here.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Keith Raygor
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Quote:
On Oct 12, 2017, BCE wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 12, 2017, TheRealMagicMike wrote:
If you're talking about frequenting a place that you'd like to work and do a few tricks to the server or bartender and little by little become known, liked and respected as a customer and a magician which might lead to them hiring you, then that's worth talking about...


Yes, this is what I had in mind, as you describe it.



Then, that would not be my approach, in part because I wouldn't be approaching establishments rooted in that same punk ethic. I like the direct approach: seek out the one person that has the authority to make a decision, demonstrate my value, and ask for the gig.

Sometimes, there's a certain bias that people can have about you. As an example, when you're working in a restaurant, it's really hard for those people to see you at their child's birthday party, or picture you on a corporate stage in front of 400 people. They only picture you in the setting they see you in. So performing for the bartenders and servers as a customer would produce a different dynamic (and take more time) than approaching the owner as a professional. I'd want them (the owner AND the bartenders/servers) to see me from the start as a professional rather than a friendly customer.

I've seen the approach you're talking about work, but I'm not sure I've seen benefits from it. But I can think of benefits from going in as a pro, that are distinguished from going in as a customer. It's much like the way you would know if someone approached you after a show. In short order, you'd sort out whether they were a member of the audience, or if perhaps they were a fellow professional entertainer, who'd just seen your show. Either way, your conversation would likely have a different tone.

The friendly banter that it takes to be known, liked and respected as a customer, by the servers, bartenders and other patrons - I'd rather save that for the gig itself. And take the shortest route to getting it.
BCE
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Quote:
On Oct 12, 2017, Keith Raygor wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 12, 2017, BCE wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 12, 2017, TheRealMagicMike wrote:
If you're talking about frequenting a place that you'd like to work and do a few tricks to the server or bartender and little by little become known, liked and respected as a customer and a magician which might lead to them hiring you, then that's worth talking about...


Yes, this is what I had in mind, as you describe it.



Then, that would not be my approach, in part because I wouldn't be approaching establishments rooted in that same punk ethic. I like the direct approach: seek out the one person that has the authority to make a decision, demonstrate my value, and ask for the gig.

Sometimes, there's a certain bias that people can have about you. As an example, when you're working in a restaurant, it's really hard for those people to see you at their child's birthday party, or picture you on a corporate stage in front of 400 people. They only picture you in the setting they see you in. So performing for the bartenders and servers as a customer would produce a different dynamic (and take more time) than approaching the owner as a professional. I'd want them (the owner AND the bartenders/servers) to see me from the start as a professional rather than a friendly customer.

I've seen the approach you're talking about work, but I'm not sure I've seen benefits from it. But I can think of benefits from going in as a pro, that are distinguished from going in as a customer. It's much like the way you would know if someone approached you after a show. In short order, you'd sort out whether they were a member of the audience, or if perhaps they were a fellow professional entertainer, who'd just seen your show. Either way, your conversation would likely have a different tone.

The friendly banter that it takes to be known, liked and respected as a customer, by the servers, bartenders and other patrons - I'd rather save that for the gig itself. And take the shortest route to getting it.


Ok, so do you mean that the approach could work (being a big if), but if it did I would get pigeonholed by my own doing - is that what you mean? The prevailing sentiment I am learning is that I just need to be authentic and honest with myself as well as the restaurants I would be approaching.
MeetMagicMike
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I was recently in a restaurant with a friend practicing magic while enjoying a meal. It caught the managers attention and she came to the table and told me she would like to talk about having me appear there regularly. It was a complete surprise to me because we were honestly just having a little jam session and nothing more.

While that worked out, I don't think she would have appreciated me walking up to tables and performing without management approval.
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Keith Raygor
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Quote:
On Oct 12, 2017, BCE wrote:
Ok, so do you mean that the approach could work (being a big if), but if it did I would get pigeonholed by my own doing - is that what you mean? The prevailing sentiment I am learning is that I just need to be authentic and honest with myself as well as the restaurants I would be approaching.


Yes, that's what I mean. And the approach that you finished with would definitely be my approach.

If you have a positive experience from establishing yourself as a patron first, I'd love to hear about it. Maybe there's a way to combine the best of both approaches. But until then, I'm happy with presenting myself directly, and as a fellow professional or colleague.
Keith Raygor
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I meant to mention earlier, in case its relevant, that I would never perform magic for fellow patrons in a restaurant setting.

Without official reason to be approaching their table or steering a conversation towards an opportunity to perform, it seems presumptuous.
funsway
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One might consider this from the perspective of "permission" (per-mission). An excerpt from the book, "Folly of Deception"

"INTERACTIVE PERMISSION

There are several types of permission with which you should be concerned: explicit, tacit, implicit and earned. The importance and relevance of each is slightly different for Conjurors and Mentalist.

Explicit Permission
This is a firm agreement by both parties, often in writing, as to what is allowed or not in an interaction. An easement, for example, is the granting of permission to cross your property under certain conditions. A restraining order is a court ordered permission that does not require agreement, and details what cannot be done. The fine print on an oil change order gives the mechanic permission to check your brakes. Using a debit card gives the bank permission to remove funds from your account. Purchasing a magic trick or DVD gives you permission to perform that trick – the transfer of money replacing a signature.

One important factor here is that lack of Explicit Permission prevents or denies the ability to act. A Realtor cannot sell a house without a signed contract as Explicit Permission to act on your behalf. A Mentalist might write about a particular demonstration, but cannot use your name without Explicit Permission. Obviously, you should be careful about giving anyone Explicit Permission as it creates a legally enforceable contract – a possibly reckless behavior leads to folly.

Tacit Permission
These are actions allowed by custom or law that apply to everyone and need no personal affirmation or agreement. Americans have the right to pursue happiness as long as it doesn’t infringe on another’s right to do the same. Parents have permission to reasonably teach, punish and make decisions for their minor children. In football another player has the right to tackle you if you hold the ball. A magician has permission to do weird things in public, but not to block the sidewalk. Many people assume they have Tacit Permission to do things unless they are told not to. This may be thoughtless or reckless behavior. The right to defend yourself from attack is Tacit, but is open to perceptions and interpretation, conflicting with a greater Permission of being safe in your person and property.

Implicit Permission
These are permission implied by a situation or by assumed common practice. The change for folly is tremendous! (as with any assumption). A person buying a ticket for a magic show gives limited Implicit Permission to the performer to entertain them, to tell outrageous lies and to pretend to be something he is not. There is nothing about eating in a restaurant that gives anyone other than the server permission to interrupt your meal. However, if you wave a performer over it is the same as buying a ticket. A Mentalist may feel he has the right to do a Cold Read for a volunteer without seeking Explicit Permission, but has no permission to reveal personal information about the volunteer that could be harmful. The right to be safe in your person (Tacit) takes precedence over any implied or assumed permission. Many people owning a cell-phone erroneously act as if they have permission to call anyone in the world and interrupt what they are doing, but worse, the answerer drops whatever they are doing, interrupting a conversation, sale or driving without the permission of the other parties involved."
"there is real merit in the magician who tries to be creative – from such endeavors magic sustains its life energy." Harold Rice



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