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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Memorised a stack, now what? (58 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Claudio
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Quote:
On Nov 17, 2017, Steve Burton wrote:
The Erdnase blind shuffles work very well to retain the full stock. I use them all the time. The shuffle referenced: Blind Shuffles, Retaining Entire Order, First Method retains the order and cuts the deck. The stack can be brought back with a single cut, which usually follows a shuffle anyway. Vernon gave a wily tip in Revelations where he directed you make the last throw a single card. The deck can be turned face up and repeated and the deck is back in full deck order.

I agree.

Alternatively, on the last throw, of the original, do a lift of all the left hand cards and throw them last. Deck is back in order without any cut or 2nd shuffle.

Performed twice in a row, it's an excellent false overhand shuffle.

Another slight modification of the original, to avoid the cut or a two shuffle sequence, is instead of dropping the last packet on top, perform a false drop (optical shuffle) and finally drop the packet at the bottom.
Steve Burton
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Quote:
Alternatively, on the last throw, of the original, do a lift of all the left hand cards and throw them last. Deck is back in order without any cut or 2nd shuffle.

Performed twice in a row, it's an excellent false overhand shuffle.

Another slight modification of the original, to avoid the cut or a two shuffle sequence, is instead of dropping the last packet on top, perform a false drop (optical shuffle) and finally drop the packet at the bottom.


What a great tip! Thank you.
thomasP
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Thank you too for that tip !!
Harry Lorayne
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I have nothing against memdeck stuff or against those who do memdeck stuff - but I guess I'm somewhat entitled to my opinion after being involved in magic for about 80(!) years. I stopped doing memdeck stuff many decades ago - and...I've written about this a number of times - I still worked only with borrowed decks. I'd excuse myself at one point to go to the bathroom - taking the deck with me. I'd memorize the shuffled deck in the bathroom, then come out and do a few memdeck things. But...

I stopped doing that when I realized that I could do much stronger, "jaw dropping" effects/routines with a shuffled deck then I could ever do with a memorized deck. Just my personal experience/opinion - obviously biased - so people don't have to pay attention unless they feel that a bit of attention may perhaps be beneficial.
Incidentally - I've written about this often (even in my memoir, BEFORE I FORGET) so I don't want to be repetitious - but doing a "memory" routine with a shuffled deck of cards when I was doing table magic for a living (I was 19 years old) moved me into my "memory" career.
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scottbuck
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Many of the stack books are stack independent. Take a look at Aronson's work.
Waterloophai
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Quote:
On Dec 22, 2017, scottbuck wrote:
Many of the stack books are stack independent. Take a look at Aronson's work.

Indeed. Except "Try the impossible" which is mainly Aronson stack oriented.
Pasteboard Alchemist
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Quote:
On Dec 22, 2017, Waterloophai wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 22, 2017, scottbuck wrote:
Many of the stack books are stack independent. Take a look at Aronson's work.

Indeed. Except "Try the impossible" which is mainly Aronson stack oriented.


Worth noting, however, that "Try the Impossible" has what I consider to be one of his best stack-independent effects: Twice as Hard. The book is a wealth of info, but that effect alone makes it worth the price for me.
Ricardo Delgado
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Harry is the creator. If he thinks his material cannot be improved by a stack, he must have some solid reasons to say so. I imagine if it was otherwise he would've already made those tricks with a mem-deck.

And also, as he explained a lot of times, he works a lot FASDIU, from a borrowed deck. In that scenario, going to the trouble of setting up a mem deck may not be worth, since he has some really powerfull effects.

But, since I strongly believe everything should be questioned, a good exercise could be trying to improve some of Harry's creations with mem-deck. What does not work for Harry may work for you. After all, impromptu card magic is not the only way to do card magic, right?

Maybe you can do that, maybe you can't. Maybe you will end up creating something new by applying principles of Harry's effects to mem-deck work. Who knows?
Ricardo Delgado
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As for the OP:
You can start building your own divination of cards routine.

And the post above also should be considered: trying to improve the effects you already do by using a memdeck. What things can you do invisibly with a mem deck? What infirmation is availabe to you with the use of a mem deck? All sorts of interesting questions and creative uses can be applied Smile
RiderBacks
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On Dec 29, 2017, Ricardo Delgado wrote: Harry is the creator. If he thinks his material cannot be improved by a stack, he must have some solid reasons to say so. I imagine if it was otherwise he would've already made those tricks with a mem-deck.


Nah. It has more to do with an old dog not being able to learn new tricks.

Quote:
On Dec 29, 2017, Ricardo Delgado wrote: And also, as he explained a lot of times, he works a lot FASDIU, from a borrowed deck.


I know. According to HL, he *only* works with a borrowed deck. That's a significant self-imposed limitation. And a stupid one. I have no idea why one would impose such an absurd limitation on themselves unless they are just too old to learn new tricks.

Quote:
On Dec 29, 2017, Ricardo Delgado wrote: In that scenario, going to the trouble of setting up a mem deck may not be worth, since he has some really powerfull effects.


I'm unfamiliar with most of them. I've seen TBGDILCR or whatever awful title it has. That was a total flop. I've shown his performance to several people. All of them laughed and instantly got it. I mean, maybe if your audience consists only of idiots...

Quote:
On Dec 29, 2017, Ricardo Delgado wrote: But, since I strongly believe everything should be questioned...


Good. I approve. I like your style.

Quote:
On Dec 29, 2017, Ricardo Delgado wrote: ... a good exercise could be trying to improve some of Harry's creations with mem-deck. What does not work for Harry may work for you.


Will never happen. There is one person whose books I will never buy. That is HL.


Quote:
On Dec 29, 2017, Ricardo Delgado wrote: After all, impromptu card magic is not the only way to do card magic, right?


Of course. But you don't have to go into the bathroom and memorize a deck either, even if you restrict yourself to performing for people who hand you a deck. There's this neat move called a "deck swap".

Quote:
On Dec 29, 2017, Ricardo Delgado wrote: Maybe you can do that, maybe you can't. Maybe you will end up creating something new by applying principles of Harry's effects to mem-deck work. Who knows?


Oh, of course I can. HL has enough effects published that it's beyond absurd to suggest that no single one of them can be improved by using a stack. He's just such a collosal, self-promoting, ****** that I can't support him. My library is extensive enough as it is that I can't work through it in a lifetime. And I still have hundreds of books I'd like to add to it. None of those will ever be HL's.
Harry Lorayne
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This is the first time ever that I got my laugh of the year on the very first day of the year. The moderators must love idiots === or, could it be? This troll is one of the moderators?! Nah, can't be.
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Harry Lorayne
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Oh; I do want to be clear. I think everyone, all new people in magic, should listen carefully to RiderBacks - might as well learn from those who've contributed sooooo much to magic - including the great thoughts and advice above. Wow! That's so OBVIOUS.
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Harry Lorayne
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Could his real name be Pupkin???
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CR_Shelton
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The very first trick in Close Up Card Magic, "Location Supreme" is improved by using the top 16 cards of any memorized stack instead of just the face cards. Because there is no pattern to see you can be less discrete in culling them to the top, and you can openly display the deck during the routine.
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CR_Shelton
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"Lazy Man's Card Trick", near the end of that same book, is similarly improved by using a memorized stack instead of an entire suit in sequence. There are many more in just that one book. "Card Sandwich" can be done instantly with any named card instead of a card selected and controlled, and the simple move described in that routine is a killer tool for mem-deck workers.
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Harry Lorayne
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Of course - if you carry your own deck, CR-Shelton, that's fine. I don't. Sorry about that, RiderBacks, your remark - "I know. According to HL, he *only* works with a borrowed deck. That's a significant self-imposed limitation. And a stupid one. I have no idea why one would impose such an absurd limitation on themselves unless they are just too old to learn new tricks"

That has to be one of the top, if not THE top, on my list of STUPID remarks. Of course, I've probably written hundreds of times why I never carry my own deck - but of course, since you say above that you'd never buy any of my books - you don't know my reasoning - but even with that complete lack of knowledge you do keep on "ranting" - that's okay; you have to keep up your reputation of MR. OH SO OBVIOUS. And yes, of course, I'm "too old to learn new tricks" ---- as usual, never buying my books - which always contain MANY new tricks --- adds to your obvious ignorance.

Incidentally, CR-Shelton, I've written a few times that I do use ten memorized cards for Lazy Man's Card Trick, but I memorize them "on the run," so that I can do the effect ANY TIME and with a BORROWED DECK. (So sorry, RiderTro.., oops sorry again - RiderBacks.)
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CR_Shelton
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No you can set the cards up after a shuffle just as described in the book, but you set up the top 16 of your stack instead of the face cards. No need to carry a deck.
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Harry Lorayne
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Sorry, lost me there --- I don't know what you mean by "the top 16 of your stack." I simply memorize the ten face cards of the shuffled deck in order (or any ten and cut them to face), shuffle keeping them in place - and go.
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CR_Shelton
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I was referring to “Location Supreme”, hence the “instead of the face cards”. By top 16 of your stack I meant the cards number 1-16 of whatever stack you prefer. Not sure how to be more explicit about that.
An actor is a magician performing the illusion of reality.
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Harry Lorayne
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Oh. Well, you would absolutely LOVE Location Supreme Anytime, near the end of JAW DROPPERS TWO. Why? Because is teaches how to do Location Supreme at any time, with any deck, and with NO MEMORY WORK WHATSOEVER.
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