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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Deckless! » » Hamman count -- is it harder to learn if you don't know the Elmsley count (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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dj
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I do not use a Hamman Count but another count.
Can be seen in the beginning of this video:
https://vimeo.com/115813699


Darko
Bob G
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I enjoyed your video, Darko. It's really magical to see all these black face cards turn slowly and gracefully into red Jacks. I'm curious about the count you used. Is it a known count with a name that I could look up? Or your own?


Bob
dj
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On Jan 22, 2018, Bob G wrote:
I enjoyed your video, Darko. It's really magical to see all these black face cards turn slowly and gracefully into red Jacks. I'm curious about the count you used. Is it a known count with a name that I could look up? Or your own?


Bob


Thanks.

I came up with this false count for the Wild Card and 8 Card Brainwave routine.
I find it more natural than Hamman Count.
I do not know if this false count exists before.


Darko
Jonathan Townsend
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Darko, it's nice to see an alternative for the odd-numbered counting that works from dealers/fingertip grip. It avoids a shift in card handling styles. That style of Odd count Elmsley did not make it into Jon Rachebaumer's CounThesaurus?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
dj
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On Jan 23, 2018, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
That style of Odd count Elmsley did not make it into Jon Rachebaumer's CounThesaurus?

I don't know.
Maybe someone here in the forum can answer this question.



Darko
dj
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Here is my "8 Card Brainwave" with the same false count:
https://youtu.be/ORgANFpNdFQ



Darko
Bob G
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Thanks for the new video, Darko. I own a copy of CounThesaurus and would be happy to look to see if Racherbaumer has something similar to Darko's count. But I'm not sure what to look for. I don't remember an "Odd Count Elmsley" in that book, but there are some variations on Elmsley. I'll see what I can find and would welcome hints on what to look for.


Bob
Bob G
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P. S. I like your handling better than the traditional one (Trost's I guess?). I've never believed that the Olram Subtlety would be very convincing, and I'll tell you why (he said, channeling P. G. Wodehouse)). Years ago I took my daughter to a restaurant where a magician was table-hopping (though I didn't know the term at that time). He showed us one of those effects, DOTS Incredible, or something like that, that are close relatives of 8-card brainwave. And I *saw* the discrepancy. I had never heard of the Olram Subtlety at that time, but I could see what he was doing. Honestly, I felt pretty proud of noticing that -- one of those rare moments of triumph -- but that experience also made me skittish about using the OS myself.


Darko, I don't know if you've rediscovered a known count, but anyway I would love to learn it. Would you be willing to PM me and explain how your count works? No pressure, of course -- if you want your invention to remain your secret I'll totally understand. I'll still look in Racherbaumer's book tonight to see if anything seems to resemble it -- but it will be hard for me to tell because from my inexperienced point of view you did a good job of hiding the mechanics in your performances.


Thanks,


Bob
dj
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On Jan 22, 2018, Bob G wrote:
I enjoyed your video, Darko. It's really magical to see all these black face cards turn slowly and gracefully into red Jacks.
Bob

This is Vallarino's Ultimate Wild Card routine. The difference is that at the beginning of the routine, I don't use a Hamman Count.



Darko
Claudio
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Just in case you would not know, guys. It's possible to perform the Hamman at the fingertips. Here I perform it with 5 cards, but you might use 7 or 9 if you wish.

Bob G
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Thanks, Claudio. Helpful as always.
Claudio
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Thanks Bob.
S.V.C
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First time I see an Hamman done at the finger tips, thank you for sharing this.
Bob G
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Claudio, do you know of a place where I can learn the details of the Fingertips version of Hamman? It has a nice, natural look to my untutored eyes. (Of course, part of the naturalness has to be a result of your years of experience in magic. I, too, have years of experience -- about 1.7. Smile )



Bob
Jonathan Townsend
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Compliments on the "three" there Claudio. Any tips on how to?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Claudio
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Thanks guys.

The Hamman count from a dealing grip can be found on Master Card Technique Vol 1 - World’s Greatest Magic http://www.llpub.com/index.php?main_page......_id=2427

I did not purchase the video as most sleights demoed in the DVD, I either knew, or did not care about (like third dealing). But, the execution of every sleight, I saw on a trailer, was very smooth.

I learnt this HC after watching a trailer of the video online (I vaguely remember as it was about 10 years ago or so).

If you want to practice the sleight without buying the DVD, I have found that the crucial factor is to make sure that, when the switch takes place, the RH goes around, on the right-hand side in other words, of the cards held in left hand, in order to push the RH cards a bit further up than the LH cards. I found that if you don't do that, your left thumb won't have much purchase on the packet during the switch, and you'll end up with a mess in both hands Smile

But I emphasise, this is my interpretation of the move. You might be better off buying the DVD, as I suspect you'll get more technical details and tips.
Bob G
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Hi Claudio,


Thanks for this advice and the reference to the disk. Like you, I wasn't interested in most of the sleights on the disk. But I'm on L&L's mailing list, so I'll find out if this disk goes on sale.


Bob
Bob G
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Darko,


I just watched your handling of 8-card brainwave again. I find it much more convincing (and pleasing to look at) than the usual Olram Subtlety version. I gather that you prefer not to share your count, which is totally understandable, but I wonder if you'd be willing, perhaps in a PM, to give me a brief explanation of how to accomplish something like your handling, but with one of the standard counts -- Elmsley, Hamman, etc.? I was trying to work this out for myself. At first I think I was stuck because I was limiting myself to the standard red-blue alternation. Now I'm guessing that part of the secret lies in the order in which you pick up the cards after the spectator makes his selection. One idea would be to pick up the cards in such a way that all the cards of the spectator's color end up together in one strategically-placed packet, and then do an HC to hide the cards of that color.


I may have mentioned that I've always been suspicious of the Olram maneuver because, years ago, I picked up on it when watching a magician perform at a restaurant. This was long before I got seriously interested in magic, and I had never heard of Olrams, subtle or not. That modest moment of triumph makes me unreasonably interested in avoiding Olram in my own performances.


Well... This is your creation, and I obviously respect your right not to divulge your secrets. But I thought I'd ask just in case... Smile


Thanks,


Bob
Bob G
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Hi again, Darko,


You can ignore my last message. I finally appreciated the significance of your previous words: "This is Vallarino's Ultimate Wild Card routine. The difference is that at the beginning of the routine, I don't use a Hamman Count." Despite that occasional moment of triumph, I'm usually a bit slow!


Bob
Bob G
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Hi yet again, Darko,


You can ignore my message asking you to ignore the previous message!! It's 8-card brainwave that I was wondering about, and, of course, Vallarino's routine would answer the question for Wild Card, not for 8-card brainwave. So if you have any thoughts you're willing to share about 8-card-brainwave, I'll be grateful.


Clearly I need to leave my computer now!


Bob
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