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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » If right you win, if wrong you lose... » » Factors affecting the effectiveness of the 3 card monte (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

licker98
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The other day, I showed one of my friends a video of someone performing the 3 card monte. There was no explanation of the trick at all and he was falling into the traps set by the operator in the video. Today, I was practising on him (although I did not tell him how the trick was done) but after a few goes, he managed to figure out how it was done, although after watching multiple videos he couldn't figure it out. Another factor to the whole con are the shills, the allure of money, and the possible abrasive demeanor of the operator all designed to get you to bet money. This got me thinking; are the confederates, atmosphere and demeanor of the operator more or equally important to how good the operator's slight of hand is?

More queries arise, such as "If the mark were to play long enough, it's likely they would eventually be able to guess where the money card was, hence why confederates would double the bet." so is it even possible for an operator to play 3 card monte long enough "against" one person without them figuring out how it's done? I know of some ways that you can switch out the cards on the table by doing a Mexican turnover, but what if you want to turn over your cards consistently and not use one card to touch another? How many times can you throw the cards before someone decides to watch your hands and fingers and realises what's going on? Is the 3 card monte designed to take such a debilitating amount of money from someone that they only manage to play a couple of times before they give up and move on?
Marc O
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I have just started to learn and practice with the 3 card Monte (SFS video and PDF) so my opinion might be of no importance but,

I think that there are many variables that can influence the player to pick the wrong card.

First of all the way I read it is that you performed the 3 card Monte in a one on one scenario.
Of course on the street there are much more people (confederates) surrounding the operator which will try to take the attention away from the player trying to follow the right card or try to push the player to follow the wrong card.

Second maybe your skills are less then the skills of the operators shown in the video.
How many different moves did you use on your friend, one or more?

One thing I have learned from the SFS video is that it is not only important to use different moves but even more so important to verbally guide them away from the correct card.
licker98
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Hm. I had never thought of verbally redirect them away from the card.

I only used the method I knew of which was to throw the card behind the queen.
Marc O
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Https://www.popsmagic.com/store/c6/Schoo......cts.html

Video and PDF for 20,- bucks.

A whole new world to discover Smile
licker98
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On Nov 2, 2017, Marc O wrote:
Https://www.popsmagic.com/store/c6/Schoo......cts.html

Video and PDF for 20,- bucks.

A whole new world to discover Smile


Does the DVD and ebook teach you as though you're performing a magic trick or does it teach as though you are a con artist?
LeoH
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It teaches the history of the con, how monte mobs work, and how to utilize the methods of the conman to be a more effective magician when presenting these demonstrations. I consider it the most complete resource on the monte.
mandy
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Licker98 please read private message
licker98
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On Nov 7, 2017, mandy wrote:
Licker98 please read private message

I have done so.
warren
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Quote:
On Nov 1, 2017, licker98 wrote:
The other day, I showed one of my friends a video of someone performing the 3 card monte. There was no explanation of the trick at all and he was falling into the traps set by the operator in the video. Today, I was practising on him (although I did not tell him how the trick was done) but after a few goes, he managed to figure out how it was done, although after watching multiple videos he couldn't figure it out. Another factor to the whole con are the shills, the allure of money, and the possible abrasive demeanor of the operator all designed to get you to bet money. This got me thinking; are the confederates, atmosphere and demeanor of the operator more or equally important to how good the operator's slight of hand is?

More queries arise, such as "If the mark were to play long enough, it's likely they would eventually be able to guess where the money card was, hence why confederates would double the bet." so is it even possible for an operator to play 3 card monte long enough "against" one person without them figuring out how it's done? I know of some ways that you can switch out the cards on the table by doing a Mexican turnover, but what if you want to turn over your cards consistently and not use one card to touch another? How many times can you throw the cards before someone decides to watch your hands and fingers and realises what's going on? Is the 3 card monte designed to take such a debilitating amount of money from someone that they only manage to play a couple of times before they give up and move on?


It sounds to me as though you hadn't spent enough time getting your technique down and would have been better waiting until you had got the move smoother as sometimes we often think we have things down when the reality is we have not.

Next time when you think you have something down instead of rushing to show someone try resisting and practice for another week adding misdirection etc, then video yourself from different angles as you will be surprised at what you see.
Then and only them perhaps show some family members and if all goes well then show your friends.

As for how many times can you throw the cards I'm a great believer in the number of 3 rule but occasionally do a 4th phase for the odd routine but usually each phase is different from the last which adds another layer of deceptiveness.

Best wishes
licker98
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On Dec 21, 2017, warren wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 1, 2017, licker98 wrote:
The other day, I showed one of my friends a video of someone performing the 3 card monte. There was no explanation of the trick at all and he was falling into the traps set by the operator in the video. Today, I was practising on him (although I did not tell him how the trick was done) but after a few goes, he managed to figure out how it was done, although after watching multiple videos he couldn't figure it out. Another factor to the whole con are the shills, the allure of money, and the possible abrasive demeanor of the operator all designed to get you to bet money. This got me thinking; are the confederates, atmosphere and demeanor of the operator more or equally important to how good the operator's slight of hand is?

More queries arise, such as "If the mark were to play long enough, it's likely they would eventually be able to guess where the money card was, hence why confederates would double the bet." so is it even possible for an operator to play 3 card monte long enough "against" one person without them figuring out how it's done? I know of some ways that you can switch out the cards on the table by doing a Mexican turnover, but what if you want to turn over your cards consistently and not use one card to touch another? How many times can you throw the cards before someone decides to watch your hands and fingers and realises what's going on? Is the 3 card monte designed to take such a debilitating amount of money from someone that they only manage to play a couple of times before they give up and move on?


It sounds to me as though you hadn't spent enough time getting your technique down and would have been better waiting until you had got the move smoother as sometimes we often think we have things down when the reality is we have not.

Next time when you think you have something down instead of rushing to show someone try resisting and practice for another week adding misdirection etc, then video yourself from different angles as you will be surprised at what you see.
Then and only them perhaps show some family members and if all goes well then show your friends.

As for how many times can you throw the cards I'm a great believer in the number of 3 rule but occasionally do a 4th phase for the odd routine but usually each phase is different from the last which adds another layer of deceptiveness.

Best wishes


Yes, I learnt that the hard way! After purchasing Notes on the Three Card Monte and practising with my newfound knowledge, I was able to catch him out a couple of times.
warren
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Hopefully you've learned a valuable lesson in regards to practising your effects and varying the methods etc which will stand you in good stead for the future well done Smile
Max T. Oz
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I'll just jump in with a couple things that come to mind.

If you are doing a sleight of hand version and continually hyping....unless your hype is immaculate (which it can be with practice), the spectator may well catch-on.

When played on the street, they only hype usually when going for the kill. And it is a totally different game.

And since we are magicians, I'll pass something on that is I think is misunderstood.

Most magician I have seen playing the game think that they (magician) must win every time. If the spectator picks the right card they panic & look for an aquitment.

The fact is, I have found, you are far far better off letting the spectator win occasionally. Once it is obvious, or he/she feels, they can't win they will lose interest. Why play/guess if you can't win? It just like the streets in that respect...people play because they think they can win. If you are only doing 2 or 3 phases, then you might want to win everytime ....but if you are playing multiple phases....let them win on occasion. And give them the credit. Don't let them know they won because you let them. If you are winning every single time, it becomes more of a puzzle on how you are switching the cards....rather than a sleight of hand game of my hands vs. your eyes.

As far as sleight of hand used by Monte gangs on the street.....if you see an improvement in their sleight of hands skills in the future with 3 Disk Monte.....some of that credit, or discredit.....may be partly my doing. Unexpectedly, I have developed somewhat of a fan base in Romania it seems. Some very interesting emails with some individuals who have a great interest in some of my techniques I use, and in particular an aquitment demo I put up but recently took down.

One chap I communicated with seemed to know pretty well all the monte gang members I have ever seen in Europe. I believe most of them work together as a network in different cities and many are even related.
.
Chris B
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Three Card Monte isn't a game to tease money from suckers like you can with the Shell Game. You need to tantalise, peek, strike, and go. Without accomplices, it's pointless.
shellgame-al
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[quote]On Dec 23, 2017, Max T. Oz wrote:
I'll just jump in with a couple things that come to mind.

If you are doing a sleight of hand version and continually hyping....unless your hype is immaculate (which it can be with practice), the spectator may well catch-on.

When played on the street, they only hype usually when going for the kill. And it is a totally different game.

And since we are magicians, I'll pass something on that is I think is misunderstood.

Most magician I have seen playing the game think that they (magician) must win every time. If the spectator picks the right card they panic & look for an aquitment.

The fact is, I have found, you are far far better off letting the spectator win occasionally. Once it is obvious, or he/she feels, they can't win they will lose interest. Why play/guess if you can't win? It just like the streets in that respect...people play because they think they can win. If you are only doing 2 or 3 phases, then you might want to win every time....but if you are playing multiple phases....let them win on occasion. And give them the credit. Don't let them know they won because you let them. If you are winning every single time, it becomes more of a puzzle on how you are switching the cards....rather than a sleight of hand game of my hands vs. your eyes.



I totally agree with Max's post. If it can't be shown that someone can win, it is not a gambling game or a con-game.

This is why the Monte gangs on the street have shill's to show that the game can be beaten to make them believe they have a chance at winning.

The magician in most cases does not have the use of any shill's to sell the con in playing the game.

If the player believes there is no chance of winning, there is no con to the game.
Then the display is only centered around with the player catching your sleights!

My opinion is the display should be applied where they can believe they have a chance at winning with the Monte or the shell game, otherwise, it is a false display of these games.

There are many different ways to apply this to the Monte or the Shell game as a magician.
Manufacture of the Bottom Ridge Shells & 3 Disk Monte
3shell.com and magicswindles.com
Dr Rick
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Like with Pop Hayden's fast and loose I think there's more charm in the "magician" losing every time rather than winning

Players can still see the pattern but aren't left feeling foolish even if "fooled" as to how
Dannydoyle
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The Three Card Monte as a magic trick is 180 degrees different from the con. They have 2 different purposes.

On the street they MUST think they have a chance, or why would they bet? In the theatrical version they think the magician has skills and will always have the card where he wants. It is 2 different psychologies at play.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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