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J M Talbot Inner circle 3058 Posts 
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Out of curiosity what traditional gambling games would have the need to know the values of hidden dice? I understand the value of gaffing dice to control the outcome of a roll of the dice.
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Mr. Bones Veteran user 319 Posts
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Sic Bo when accommodating player superstition.
See Casino Game Protection by Steve Forte (page 401) for details. Also Pai Gow. And others.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"! |
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J M Talbot Inner circle 3058 Posts
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Familiar with Sic Bo and this type of device below and others to control dice outcome but not dice that secretly tell you the values with sealed internal electronics such as the dice discussed here for magic. If that existed for years in gambling hard to believe it never leaked to the magic world. Any links supporting that? Unfortunately do not have the Forte book.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ6-oZ6KsZU Thanks John |
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Mr. Bones Veteran user 319 Posts
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The Sic Bo concept is in the Forte book (I even provided the page number!)
I will say that you may be presuming that the rules to Sic Bo are fixed ... when in Asian casinos they're nothing of the sort. I gave you the seed of what might change rules and the order of play in my post above, first sentence. It's exclusively a magicians conceit that some minor "new" element added to the mix suddenly results in something like a "gaffed electronic die" being the creation of an individual who will then "own" the concept. Dice with electronics concealed inside have long been commonplace in the gambling and cheating world. The information is there if interested, and you're willing to invest the time to find it. Regardless, I don't want to derail the thread ... my point was simply that this concept doesn't "belong" to Anverdi, Craig, or Marc ... although all of them have done incredible work developing their own versions of it.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"! |
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J M Talbot Inner circle 3058 Posts
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Thank you. It is well documented that Anverdi was doing work on this 50+ years ago. You statement suggests that electronic gambling dice with electronics inside them to convey the value predates that? I assume your reference you have provided confirms that timeline? I anxiously look forward to reading that when I can reference a copy.
This has nothing to do with magician conceit, genuinely interested in the history here. Have studied the work of Anverdi and others in this field as it relates to magic. I do find it a little hard to believe that electronic dice were being used for this purpose in gambling that far back as micro components were not yet available, but look forward to being proven wrong. New knowledge is great. |
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Mr. Bones Veteran user 319 Posts
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I believe you may have misinterpreted the word "conceit" in the context with which I used it.
(Magicians conceit = something that is conceived in the mind; a thought; idea, imagination, fancy.) In your earlier post you asked: Out of curiosity what traditional gambling games would have the need to know the values of hidden dice To which I responded: Sic Bo when accommodating player superstition. See Casino Game Protection by Steve Forte (page 401) for details. Nowhere did I say or imply that you would find any reference to anything beyond the answer to your gambling game question in the Forte book ... so don't be too disappointed if you get a hold of it and only find the Sic Bo reference on page 401. I get that you doubt what I'm saying!, and that's fine - which is why I posted: The information is there if interested, and you're willing to invest the time to find it. Alls well.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"! |
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J M Talbot Inner circle 3058 Posts
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You made the statement that electronic dice that could convey the value from electronics within the die predates Anverdi. Anverdi's timeline is well established. Was simply looking for some validation to your claim. Not shocked that electronic dice like this have been used ( and look forward to reading your reference) in gambling but beyond 50 + years ago I do question, but would love to read any validation of that. Your somewhat condescending responses either suggest there is no validation or you are demonstrating the "exaggerations" I have read from "gambling experts" in the past. Not sure why such historical info needs to be held in such secrecy if it exists.
Cheers, John |
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jaizon Inner circle By time you read this I will have 1554 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 14, 2018, J M Talbot wrote: I do believe that Mr. Bones is a troll. Please do not feed. |
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J M Talbot Inner circle 3058 Posts
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Thanks jaizon... had run out of bread crumbs anyway....
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Mr. Bones Veteran user 319 Posts
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Not trolling at all gents.
From my original post in this thread: "nobody "owns" the concept of gaffed dice" In any of the dozens of ways dice can be gaffed, nobody can claim ownership of any of them. That was the only point being made. You obviously feel differently, and that's fine. No need to get nasty.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"! |
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MR Effecto Inner circle 2835 Posts
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It would be nice to read about Mental dice instead people talking crap after crap.
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J M Talbot Inner circle 3058 Posts
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... I tried early in this thread as someone that owns it but but with little success. Hopefully as more people receive it we will have some input.
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elimagic Inner circle 1663 Posts
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Here is the issue here folks... a perfect example of why murphy’s needs to TAKE DOWN THEIR EXPOSIRE TRAILER!
On Chris Ramsey’s latest video(linked below) he uses an rd (poorly I might add). He then proceeds to teach it to the other person in the video off camera (thankfully) and then the other person uses rd. One of the first comments is stating that it must be “mental dice” and the commenter says to just look at the murphy’s magic trailer...... THIS IS AN ISSUE!!!!!! The exposure in the trailer for mental dice doesn’t only affect that product..... Ridiculous..... Starts a little more than half way https://youtu.be/pfQlEqSnllI We should all be upset by this and write to murphy’s to ask them to stop and take down the video and advise their vendors to do the same...regardless of feelings towards rd/mysticcube/mentaldice.... this hurts all of us. |
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Yepski Regular user 186 Posts
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Based on your tip I read through the video’s comments on YouTube, people are blowing up the secret and “Mental Dice from Murphy’s magic.” Multiple comments state, “you want to know how that last trick was done, just watch the mental dice trailer on Murphy’s magic.” Now what? Cats kinda out of the bag.
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Gaz Lawrence Inner circle 5991 Posts
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The beauty of RD is it a normally moulded dice and if they took it home all night they would find nothing . Also no visual issues to conceal it’s truly different gravy and even if you thought of the possible method it’s still impossible because it’s a moulded real dice pure and simple Tarik 🙂
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dooblehorn Inner circle Pittsburg, CA 2481 Posts
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Ok, back to original intent of this thread...received the Mental Dice yesterday. Really very nice quality, no visible seams (if there even are any) on the included red, white and black dice, beautiful wood box to hold the dice, poker-sized card box, all contained in a nice cloth bag. Includes USB charging cable and tool to program/shut off the dice. (Mods, despite the existing video discussed, if this post is too descriptive, please feel free to delete my post.) It seems to me that Marc Antoine does care about creating a high-quality and (so far) extremely reliable product. Pretty happy with this purchase.
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magicinsight Inner circle 4305 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 19, 2018, dooblehorn wrote: Can you remove the re....er from the card case to someplace else like a note pad? Thank you.
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver |
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jaizon Inner circle By time you read this I will have 1554 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 17, 2018, Tarik Flash wrote: It is a work of art. |
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J M Talbot Inner circle 3058 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 19, 2018, dooblehorn wrote: Great to see you are happy dooblehorn. I echo you comments and after a year of use I am still very happy with mine. At this price point the quality is very good. Not sure why some here feel it is still necessary to insert a random endorsement for RD after every Mental Dice post. Yes it is a great product, but we get it already. I am curious that there is another thread going about another similar product that is much closer to the Promystic offering yet no one seems opposed to that one. Am I missing something? Is Marc not part of the "inner circle" but that manufacturer is? Seems a little unfair. |
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videoman Inner circle 6748 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 19, 2018, J M Talbot wrote: I was wondering the same thing myself. |
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » Mental Dice by Marc Antoine (178 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Jan 13, 2018 05:46 pm 
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