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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » The Creeker Deck (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

TH10111
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To the best of my knowledge, the creeker deck is something that has not been discussed on the gambling spot before.
For those who don't know, this work uses rough and smooth cards; however instead of feeling the texture of the card's back to determine its value, the change in friction as the cards are dealt is what is felt. In this way it is possible for the dealer to detect a target card as the card above it is dealt.
I have played with this idea and it works once you get the pressure right. It also gives you slightly more time to prepare for a second deal in comparison with using the punch.
Also, I think Slim offered creeker decks on his site for a while, but I can't see them on there anymore.

Has anyone else tried this?

It is probably less reliable in a game where the cards may become sticky on their own. Also, I believe that the main advantage over the traditional rough and smooth work is in the extra time it gives to prepare a second, so it's use in a game would be limited to situations in which one is comfortable dealing a deuce.
Cagliostro
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Creeker Deck? Sound like something to pull out on Halloween.

Oh, pardon my confusion. "Creepy" deck came to mind initially.

Why would it be named Creeker Deck? As you said, isn't it just a rough and smooth deck regardless of how it is used?

I mean, "A rose by any other name..."

Is the name essentially a marketing ploy?

Would it not be better to use scratch on the sides like Walter Scott used? Then you could estimate down 3 - 4 cards or more from the top and it woudl not matter if the cards became sticky or not?

Am I missing something here??
TH10111
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When I tried the creeker deck, I used a roughing spray, so the friction created was certainly more than a typical rough and smooth combination. But then maybe I needed that because my touch hasn't yet developed to be sensitive enough.

Edge marking is certainly a good option, but the advantage of this deck, and indeed with the punch as well, is that you don't have to look at the deck... ideal for when a bunch of magicians put a bag over your head!
slim23
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Hi guys,

No, we never had creeker decks on slimcardco.com. I think maybe you are thinking about David Malek's website that sells them. As far as I am concerned, I think he is the only one that calls them this way (and sells them) at the moment.

I like the idea of Creeker deck and it is interesting to mark the face of the cards instead of the back (I know Geno Munari discussed about marks on the face of cards at some point). That being said, I prefer a rough & smooth deck better, let's say for Blackjack... I think it would work better and it is great to use in a shoe. Cag, wouldn't it be better for a shoe then scratch on the side? Not sure about this though, but it is interesting to me.

Speaking of rough & smooth decks, it was pretty interesting to sort some when the Expert Playing Cards company had their cards made by USPCC. I guess it could still work now but I did not try. Otherwise, you have to go back before 1989, and I don't have a DeLorean in my driveway.

Slim

p.s. Now I would sure like to have rough & Smooth decks on our website!! Maybe in 2018...
Cagliostro
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Does anyone know where such an absurd name like Creeker" deck originated from and what is its derivative meaning, if any.

Certainly a magician/demonstrator did not simply pull that name out of his ear...or did he?
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On Dec 18, 2017, slim23 wrote:

...That being said, I prefer a rough & smooth deck better, let's say for Blackjack... I think it would work better and it is great to use in a shoe. Cag, wouldn't it be better for a shoe then scratch on the side?...


R&S is read by the dealer by feel, whereas scratch is read by the player by sight. Of course, the dealer can read scratch, but he has to look down to see it unless the player is signaling the top card to him. More complicated to do it that way.

R&S can also be read by the player out of the shoe by sight, but that would depend on the texture of the rough and smooth cards and the lighting over the table. Not the best way to go and in most instances not possible to do it that way.

If the dealer is in on the play, and the cards can be put in from the inside, then R&S is generally better.

If the dealer is not in on the play, then scratch would be the only alternative between the two options.

But as unusual, it depends upon the circumstances. Nothing is ever 100% one way or the other.

If the people who are being taken off know scratch, use R&S. If the people who are being taken off know R&S, use scratch. It they know both, use something else.

There are many ways to "skin a cat." Smile

For example, I know of one play in which the scratch was put in on the short ends of the cards, near the corner, and not on the long sides. Since the dealer was in on the play, he would simply push the top card slightly out of the shoe to enable the hustlers to read it. This way, someone looking for work on the long side of the cards, the most logical place for a shoe play, would find nothing as there was nothing there.

However, better to keep everything as simple as possible.
Cagliostro
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Adding to my post immediately above, when working under fire it ALWAYS depends...on the context, the circumstances, who you are playing against, the lighting, the angles, the con, etc. etc. etc.

In magician/demo land it doesn't "depend" because it is all basically "make-believe," and usually the more make-believe the demo the more interesting and entertaining it is.

Even in professionally run gambling protection lectures given to casino personnel, it is also in part "make-believe" because the elements that are not included in the technical explanation of a ploy are usually the most important parts of the play.

Since most gambling protection experts have never "been there," those elements are pretty much "greek" to them and too involved. Besides, how do you convey the more esoteric information of a play or gaff to gambling personnel who for the most part are "square-johns" and would not absorb what you are talking about anyway.

One has to keep his expose pretty direct and basic in those instances.
Gary Plants
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To my knowledge, Dr. X, aka Terry Roses was the first one to sell the "Creeker Deck". He sold it maybe 20 years ago through Joe Stevens Magic Shop. Joe used to sell a lot of Terry's gambling stuff.
slim23
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I guess this post is a way of keeping it alive...
Thanks TH10111 for that.

Cag, nice comments, always a pleasure to read! The scratch you mention on the short side near the corner, was it made by a corner rounder?

Gary, I did not know Terry sold the Creeker deck 20 years ago. I am curious to see if it was in his catalog. thank you for the information.

Slim
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On Dec 18, 2017, slim23 wrote:

Cag, nice comments, always a pleasure to read! The scratch you mention on the short side near the corner, was it made by a corner rounder?


Nothing so fancy. A piece of sandpaper or a razor blade does the job very nicely.
TH10111
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My apologies Slim, I must have been mistaken about the creeker deck appearing on your site.

As you say Cag, the context is always the defining factor as to the success of any scam.

Also, thank you Gary for the history of the creeker deck. I have not had the pleasure of looking through one of the Dr.X catalogues, but I know he had his own trimmer. Was there much else of interest in them?

In terms of putting marks in during game play, I would certainly lean towards a nail nick due to there being no need to carry anything extra. However, the mark from sandpaper, I would assume, is more subtle, and the work could be put in on the backs as well as the edges.
Though I haven't seen any, I guess there must be something like a ring out there that has some sandpaper or other rough surface incorporated into its design to surreptitiously mark the cards...

Tom
Mr. Bones
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Original and identical card brands with different factory finishes (cambric and smooth) can offer up a similar tactile and/or visual experience.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
slim23
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Tom, no harm done and no worries. And I think Dr X's catalogs are interesting. You can find Terry on Facebook...

Cag, thanks for the reply.

Mr Bones, that is what I was hinting and it is always fun to have a Smooth finish Bee deck from before 1989. This combo is really effective! Do you have some smooth finish Bee decks?

Cheers,

Slim
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I do have some "legacy" Bee decks in various finishes Slim, and I also jumped at the opportunity to pick up a bunch of the Conjuring Arts Research Center decks when they were still available, as they made quite a few nice decks in both cambric and smooth finishes, usually with an Erdnase related back design, but on that nice Bee stock.

As long as the cambric finish on any given brand of card isn't too "woven" in texture, a cambric and smooth mix can be a powerful bit of touch work.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
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