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Redfoot
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I just ended with Kieron's Iceolation and boy did it get a response. I had to deal with a lot of incredibly positive fallout, and batting that away proved taxing. My question is: how do you deal with people who, after an impossible effect, now believe magic is actually real? There's no way to explain what you just presented without giving away the method, but you surely can't perpetuate a mystical power... unless you're a mentalist, obviously. So when a spectator begins insisting magic is real because of what you've just performed, how can you counteract this without offending anyone? To add clarification to the situation, this was a very Christian event and obviously touting real magic would be heresy.
fonda57
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I don't see how it could be a problem. So people want to believe it's really magic, that's great. Or are you just here to tell us what a great show it was?
Vlad_77
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Quote:
On Dec 22, 2017, Redfoot wrote:
I just ended with Kieron's Iceolation and boy did it get a response. I had to deal with a lot of incredibly positive fallout, and batting that away proved taxing. My question is: how do you deal with people who, after an impossible effect, now believe magic is actually real? There's no way to explain what you just presented without giving away the method, but you surely can't perpetuate a mystical power... unless you're a mentalist, obviously. So when a spectator begins insisting magic is real because of what you've just performed, how can you counteract this without offending anyone? To add clarification to the situation, this was a very Christian event and obviously touting real magic would be heresy.


Just tell them that magic requires a lot of practice and tell them that with 5 year's practice they can do it too.
magicfish
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Quote:
On Dec 22, 2017, Redfoot wrote:
I just ended with Kieron's Iceolation and boy did it get a response. I had to deal with a lot of incredibly positive fallout, and batting that away proved taxing. My question is: how do you deal with people who, after an impossible effect, now believe magic is actually real? There's no way to explain what you just presented without giving away the method, but you surely can't perpetuate a mystical power... unless you're a mentalist, obviously. So when a spectator begins insisting magic is real because of what you've just performed, how can you counteract this without offending anyone? To add clarification to the situation, this was a very Christian event and obviously touting real magic would be heresy.

Glad you posted this.
I have had this experience. Many magicians feel that layman could and do conceivably believe in psychic phenomena or powers of the mind, but that they couldn't possibly believe in magic of the hands- that they all know it is a trick.
This isn't so. I have known a few people over the years who genuinely believed that I had magic powers. That I could do real magic.
It happens.
MeetMagicMike
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Fonda57 wrote:

Quote:
I don't see how it could be a problem. So people want to believe it's really magic, that's great.


Personally, I don't think its great if people believe it's really magic. Like many magicians before me I prefer to have my audience leave my show smarter about such things. Any suggestion of "magic" in my show is done tongue in cheek and as Vlad mentioned I make it clear that what I do is done through study and practice.

When I watched Don Allen do the chop cup or even David Copperfield vanishing a train as a teen I never believed it was supposed to be real magic and yet I loved it and respected it and wanted to learn the secrets which I knew could be found in books at the library.

It's an odd thing that those of us who don't want to foster supernatural beliefs and those of us that do or both called magicians.
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Poof-Daddy
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I feel like - If you did it that well, you certainly did something right. I did an ambitious card routine for a lady in her mid 20's years ago who was actually so freaked out that she pulled out some beads and started praying. I simply explained that "magic exists" but only in the minds of those who want to believe in it and if you enjoy it, it is good magic. That seemed to work for her anyway.

I also think some people who actually believe in magic, lean toward the "dark art" form rather than "good magic". Unfortunately, this is not the type stuff I am trying to portray. I just try to keep it at - plain old entertaining magic.
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Dec 22, 2017, Redfoot wrote:
... So when a spectator begins insisting magic is real because of what you've just performed, how can you counteract this without offending anyone? To add clarification to the situation, this was a very Christian event and obviously touting real magic would be heresy.


Jerry Andrus spoke about that:
https://www.inspiringquotes.us/author/1049-jerry-andrus
"Usually when we're fooled, the mind hasn't made a mistake. It's come to the wrong conclusion for the right reason."
...to all the coins I've dropped here
MeetMagicMike
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Redfoot wrote:

Quote:
...but you surely can't perpetuate a mystical power... unless you're a mentalist ... this was a very Christian event and obviously touting real magic would be heresy.


How would being a mentalist not make it heresy? (If we assume real magic is heresy)

and...

How is real magic heresy if you are a Christian? Christianity is full of magic.

I don't intend my questions as an attack Redfoot. I just think it's important to clarify these things if you are going to answer your own question.
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kShepher
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Or you can be like L.Ron Hubbard and create a cult. The money will start pouring in.
Terrible Wizard
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I'm amazed that peoplemightthink a card trick is real magic. Then again I've met some odd people, so anythings possible, I guess. If they asked if it was real, I'd just tell them it was trick. Why hide the truth on this issue?
kShepher
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It is SO sad that there are so many dolts out there.

It is a sorry state. Where is our education system? Where is it?
MeetMagicMike
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Believing in magic doesn't make someone a dolt. Many magician's work hard to convince people they are performing real magic. Our media bombards the public with the idea that doubting things is a bad character trait.

Let's give our audiences good information rather than encouraging supernatural beliefs.
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magicfish
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Mike is right, these are sensible, intelligent people who are so mystified that they think there might actually be real magic. They are hopeful and creative and imaginative. They are not dolts.
But I think something is amiss. I am suspicious of the trend here at the Café lately. The regulars will know what I mean.
MeetMagicMike
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I'm a regular and I don't know what you mean.
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magicfish
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Quote:
On Dec 22, 2017, Redfoot wrote:
I just ended with Kieron's Iceolation and boy did it get a response. I had to deal with a lot of incredibly positive fallout, and batting that away proved taxing. My question is: how do you deal with people who, after an impossible effect, now believe magic is actually real? There's no way to explain what you just presented without giving away the method, but you surely can't perpetuate a mystical power... unless you're a mentalist, obviously. So when a spectator begins insisting magic is real because of what you've just performed, how can you counteract this without offending anyone? To add clarification to the situation, this was a very Christian event and obviously touting real magic would be heresy.

Why is it okay to "perpetuate" mystical power of a mental flavour but not a magical flavour.
MeetMagicMike
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Hey magicfish. I already asked that about seven posts up. Smile
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magicfish
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Ok. Sorry I missed it Mike.
lynnef
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Redfoot's post is indeed heartfelt. You can tell someone straight up it's an illusion; and instead of giving the method away for your elaborate effect, give away a very simple and quick trick every child knows! Interesting anecdote: David Blaine in one of his TV specials performed a mentalism trick with some Haitians (perhaps believing in voodoo magic?)... he had a difficult time convincing them that he could not actually read their minds, that it was indeed a magic trick! Touting "real magic" by the way is akin to talking to dead people, and is more of a moral question than just a heresy to Christians. Imagine, like Houdini, learning that he couldn't communicate with his dead mother, after thinking perhaps he could. There's a moral question out there: Are we out to astonish (and perhaps fool) people, and enjoy the act with them; or are we out to 'hustle' or take advantage of people? Since this is the workers forum, do we do 3 card monte as a trick or do we cheat them for real (there is irony here as well, as the magic spectator pays to be cheated!) Lynn
RealityOne
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Anyone who believes the performance of a card trick is evidence of supernatural powers deserves to be left in their state of ignorance. As they say, ignorance is bliss.

Quote:
On Dec 23, 2017, magicfish wrote:
Why is it okay to "perpetuate" mystical power of a mental flavour but not a magical flavour.


Many mentalists have realized that trivializing what they do as a "trick" decreases the theatrical value of their performance. Magicians are afraid of being burned at the stake, so we take great pains to trivialize what we do to discourage belief.

I'm of the view that good magic is like other good forms of art (while also agreeing with Max Maven about how hard it is to find). We have to encourage our audiences to transcend disbelief and to be open to the wonder and astonishment of what we do during our performances. We too often worry about the audience discovering our methods and go to great lengths to disprove methods so to inflict some sort of injury in the battle against the audience (see all the advertising for "fully examinable" or "organic" effects that "floor", "slay" or "kill" the audience). Instead we should seek to entertain by reflecting our personalities, worldview and emotion in our magic in the hopes that the audience will find interest, entertainment or emotion. In that case, the method becomes irrelevant because the illusion of the effect attains a greater meaning from the context of the presentation.

Or you could just ask them to pick a card and worry about being elevated to the level of a minor deity if you can find it.
~David

Any perception of reality is a selection of reality which results in a distortion of reality.
MeetMagicMike
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Reality One,

The tests done Dr Rhine with Zener cards were a card trick and many were taken in. Just because your uncle does a few math tricks doesn't mean a someone with "a genuine gift" couldn't use them in a demonstration.

And I'm not sure why you are talking about card tricks at all. The original poster did not specify what kind of magic he performed.

I explored big foot, pyramid power, the Bermuda Triangle etc when I was teen and learned about cognitive biases, misreporting, bad memory, fraud and all the things that can make these things seem like they have evidence behind them. Many people didn't go through that phase. Maybe they had parents with magical beliefs, maybe they saw a psychic at a fair who told them things "he couldn't possibly have known" when they were at a vulnerable stage.

Let's educate people rather than insulting them.
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