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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Memorising first deck (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Rssudo
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So in the past I've frequently used stacks such as Stebbins and 8 Kings.
I want to start using a memorised deck and have chosen to start with The Magic Convention Set-Up by David Berglas.

I'm aware of techniques to learn the deck in order, however how would I go about learning the cards alongside their corresponding numbers?
Is there any technique to remember which number between 1 and 54 corresponds with which card, such that if one were to say 27 for example I'd know it corresponded with 9D without having to mentally go through the first 26 cards?

Many Thanks,
Rssudo
Steve Burton
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You might check out the first thread in this section, How to Use a Memorized Deck. Lots of useful information for those beginning to learn this area of card magic.

I use the Link and Peg System found in the last chapter of The Encyclopedia of Card Tricks. You create a word picture that corresponds to the number of the card in the deck.

After you do that you'll always have the mnemonic reference for every card. After a while, you will automatically remember the card and location through rote.
Waterloophai
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Harry Lorayne
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The Link and Peg Systems are in The Encyclopedia of Card Tricks? I don't have, never read, that book. Fill me in, would you?
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
Waterloophai
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In chapter 20 (last chapter) the Nikola system is indeed described. The book is a classic.
ddyment
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There are at least four commonly used methods to memorize value-position relationships. Each has its proponents and detractors. Each offers benefits and presents drawbacks.

I discuss all of this in some detail in my essay on the topic.
Doug Dyment's Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
Waterloophai
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If you want to learn more about the most used methods to learn a mem deck, the link above from Doug Dyment is indeed a very good source.
Harry Lorayne
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Yeah, stay away from HOW TO DEVELOP A SUPER-POWER MEMORY, SECRETS OF MIND POWER, REMEMBERING PEOPLE (The Key To Success), MEMORY MAKES MONEY, SUPER MEMORY-SUPER STUDENT, THE MEMORY BOOK, AGELESS MEMORY, etc. (Oh, and the words Peg and Link are in that chapter, Waterloophai?
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

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http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
Waterloophai
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I never wrote that they have to stay away from your books.
I just wrote that the Nikola system is described in the mentioned book.
Rssudo
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Thanks guys!
Is the peg system similar to the system for memorising lists described at the beginning of the chapter of 13 steps about memory? Can't remember what it's called but it's the one where you have words from one to 30 that rhyme with the number? I haven't used it for magic but more for remembering long shopping lists 😂
Also I know Harry Lorayne has many books on memory, which books would be recommended of mainly wanted for memorising cards?

Many thanks
Rssudo
alicauchy
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Quote:
On Jan 2, 2018, Rssudo wrote:
Also I know Harry Lorayne has many books on memory, which books would be recommended of mainly wanted for memorising cards?


I used "How to develop a super-power memory" to learn Mnemonica in a couple of days (including the time to get familiar with the link and peg systems).
So much to do, so little time . . .
Steve Burton
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I was surprised to learn just how old the memory system concept really is. Mnemonic principle's genesis appears to be Stanislaus Mink von Wennsshein, (Johann Just Winkelman) circa 1648 , this is known as the Major System of mnemonics. It was a way to remember numbers.
Harry Lorayne
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If you'd like a bit of history of memory training go to memoryimprovement.org. Keep hitting "continue" until you come to that bit of history.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
Senor Fabuloso
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Cyclical stacks such as 8 kings and Stebbins are so popular because of how easy they are to learn and remember. While all memory work is worth learning and might even stay off dementia I don't see why learning anything complicated for a card stack is worth it? I'm old school where the simplest solution is usually the best one. Occam's Razor.
To hate those who hate is righteous.
Ricardo Delgado
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I thought Occam's Razor was only applied to develop theories and hypothesis.

It can be a lot of work to learn a stack up to "performance level", but I can see the differences it has compared to cyclical stacks. The instant knowledge of each card position, some effects built into it, and the "lack" of a recognizable pattern can all be advantages. But, it la ks the mathematical properties a cyclical stack has.

In the end it sorts of depends what are you wanting to achieve, right? I don't think cyclical/mathematical stacks should be in the same category of memorizes stacks. They are different tools, although they share some similarities
alicauchy
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Quote:
On Jan 6, 2018, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
...While all memory work is worth learning and might even stay off dementia I don't see why learning anything complicated for a card stack is worth it? I'm old school where the simplest solution is usually the best one. Occam's Razor.


Yes, it is a matter of personal choice. For me it is worth. It simply depends on whether you are willing to use the full power of a memorized stack (as stated by Ricardo) or not; moreover, the mnemonic system can be used as well in the "real world".
So much to do, so little time . . .
ddyment
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Ricardo Delgado opined:
Quote:
I don't think cyclical/mathematical stacks should be in the same category of memorizes stacks.

This perpetuates a false dichotomy. Being a member of one group doesn't preclude membership in another.

Cyclical/mathematical, or any other types of stack, should be in the same category as memorized stacks if they are memorized. Otherwise, not.

There are, in fact, specific advantages to memorizing stacks that have additional useful properties.
Doug Dyment's Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
Ricardo Delgado
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Quote:
On Jan 6, 2018, ddyment wrote:
This perpetuates a false dichotomy. Being a member of one group doesn't preclude membership in another.

Cyclical/mathematical, or any other types of stack, should be in the same category as memorized stacks if they are memorized. Otherwise, not.


You are completely right. Any deck order can be a memorized stack if someone put in the work to memorize it.

But I was referring to the exclusive properties of the cyclical stacks. And considering that Senor Fabuloso implied he doesn't memorize the stacks he use, then they are not memorized stacks, right?
mlippo
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I'm about to turn 53 and crazy enough to decide to delve into the memdeck world ... Smile


In little less than a month, little by little, day by day, I feel quite confident with the first 26 cards on the Mnemonica stack.
Now I'm stopping here for a while, because I want to keep on fixing into my mind the half stack, while starting to work on some of the routines in Juan Tamariz's great book which rely on only half stack.

I didn't use any kind of memorizing techniques: just learnt card and position by heart, by sheer rote.
What do you, more experts than me, think?

Is it just one of the methods or in the long run, this method (which seemed to work fine for me so far) will show some disadvantages?

Thanks

Mark
Ricardo Delgado
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That's great Mark!

I don't really have a solid basis for this, but from the knowledge I've gathered reading about memory and memory systems, the only disadvantages of route memorization are the time, effort and lack of other relationships your brain have to remember. This last disadvantage is not really bothersome if you use that knowledge on a regular basis, but if you spend some time without practice, you may forget some things.

If you don't want to delve into memory systems, the advices and techniques Tamariz offers on the book are really valuable:
1) make drawings on a deck of cards that will help you remember and relate the position to the specific card.
2) make a song about the positions and the cards. Make it silly and catchy. Record it and hear it some times. Sing along. It's silly, yeah, but that helps remembering.

Those two points have helped me a lot.

Other thing that helped me a lot:
3) make a cheat sheet. Take it with you. The Phoenix Bingo Cards can help.

4) practice sessions: shuffle, and put the deck in order. Then do it again. If you are in doubt, take a look at the cheat sheet. Do it again. And again. After you are confortable with it, start timing yourself. Last time I did it it took me 2min 50 sec. Not that great but I'm still trying to get it better.

I think you will really like to work with the memdeck.
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