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Rssudo
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And about being an actor, an actor tries to get genuine experience to play their party better
Adrien L.
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On Jan 11, 2018, Rssudo wrote:
I want a small amount of experience in what you would consider to be real hypnosis, and a lot more in what you might consider pseudo-hypnosis


So I did assume correctly Smile

IMHO, if that's your goal (which is the same as mine, btw) then just do it and don't think about what's "real" hypnosis and what's not. Do what works for you. Just don't call it hypnosis, because there are some implications to that. Again, this is just my opinion. Use your knowledge about hypnosis to improve your performance, but don't mention hypnosis.
Mindpro
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There you go... just as suspected...he isn't truly interested in learning actual hypnosis, he is from the UK and of course Reality Is Plastic we knew would come up as his interested shortcut so he can do pretend hypnosis.

I agree with Adrien L., just don't call it hypnosis for the audience's sake (as well as your own).
'
Why is it no one from the UK ever really wants to truly learn actual true hypnosis, just some magic that looks like or can be passed off as hypnosis? It is the same thing every time.
Rssudo
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Quote:
On Jan 11, 2018, Mindpro wrote:
Why is it no one from the UK ever really wants to truly learn actual true hypnosis, just some magic that looks like or can be passed off as hypnosis? It is the same thing every time.


Most people from the UK who you're speaking about are interested in learning genuine hypnosis until they learn about the strict licensing laws. Because of the strict licensing laws regarding stage Hypnosis in the UK it makes it a lot harder to do feasibly. You can learn magic and show magic to friends to gain experience without having to get a license for each individual performance. The same is not true for hypnosis. Therefore a lot more is at risk to learn hypnosis in the UK, and practicing isn't viable until you're very good. Makes learning hard. The alternative is to learn the type performed by people such as Martin S Taylor. Then once you've learned that, you've got enough material that doesn't need licensing to start learning true hypnosis and that can be done whilst you're creating a name for yourself as a magician and mentalist, using your magic and Martin Taylor-esque hypnosis.

Not sure why it's such a confusing question as to why UK people don't want to learn the hypnosis as defined by the hypnotism act that they have to get a license from the council in order to practice...
Mindpro
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While you may believe this and accepted this it is really nonsense. The laws in the UK have been in effect for years and it has never prevented several generations of stage hypnotists there from learning and training properly. The laws would not be a deterrent for those truly interested in learning and pursuing hypnosis.

It is a magician's thing, and generational thing, and of course the whole Euro-style street/ambush thing, but what you are offering is just an excuse or justification for such belief (and magician's thinking).
Rssudo
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On Jan 11, 2018, Mindpro wrote:
While you may believe this and accepted this it is really nonsense. The laws in the UK have been in effect for years and it has never prevented several generations of stage hypnotists there from learning and training properly. The laws would not be a deterrent for those truly interested in learning and pursuing hypnosis.

It is a magician's thing, and generational thing, and of course the whole Euro-style street/ambush thing, but what you are offering is just an excuse or justification for such belief (and magician's thinking).


Well they are a deterrent for me learning what you'd consider genuine stage Hypnosis...
mindmagic
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I'm in the UK and a qualified hypnotherapist, but I have never performed "stage hypnosis" or "street hypnosis". What I have done is to incorporate "waking hypnosis" (aka suggestibility tests) into mentalism performances, usually as a warm-up involving the whole audience. I have also used pseudo-hypnosis. It sounds to me that this is the kind of thing you're after.

"Reality is Plastic", by the way, is very definitely real hypnosis although it begins with suggestibility tests. There's a lot of common sense in the book. (I proofread the latest edition.)

Barry
NightSG
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On Jan 10, 2018, Adrien L. wrote:
Get proper training is kinda the default answer around here, isn't it?


Yeah, and it takes all the fun out of learning. I mean, why not just practice on cab drivers in heavy traffic, large angry people in the bar and mentally unstable women until you get it right?
Mindpro
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Lol. People don't come here to want to hear the truth and the realities, they come here to hear what they want to hear from others that support their own interests and beliefs.

This IS what happens when the kinda default answer is the truth.
Adrien L.
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On Jan 14, 2018, NightSG wrote:
Yeah, and it takes all the fun out of learning. I mean, why not just practice on cab drivers in heavy traffic, large angry people in the bar and mentally unstable women until you get it right?


I don't think you got the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make was to avoid precisely what you did: you automatically assume that, if I don't want proper training, it means I'm practicing on cab drivers and unstable people? That's nice of you, thanks...

I am a magician. I am NOT an hypnotist, and I have not the proper training (I admit that I would love to and maybe one day I will). But, for now, I want to entertain people because that's what I get payed for. And having someone's hand stuck to a table or forgetting the card he picked is entertaining.

So, what if it's not "hypnosis"? It's what I want to do and I absolutely don't want my audiences to compare me with those lame guys swinging their pocket watches and having people behave like chickens in front of their friends.

So, if that's the goal of the OP, maybe the "truth" is different, no? If the only tool I have is an hammer, I'll treat every problem as a nail, right? Smile
Rssudo
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Quote:
On Jan 14, 2018, Adrien L. wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 14, 2018, NightSG wrote:
Yeah, and it takes all the fun out of learning. I mean, why not just practice on cab drivers in heavy traffic, large angry people in the bar and mentally unstable women until you get it right?


I don't think you got the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make was to avoid precisely what you did: you automatically assume that, if I don't want proper training, it means I'm practicing on cab drivers and unstable people? That's nice of you, thanks...

I am a magician. I am NOT an hypnotist, and I have not the proper training (I admit that I would love to and maybe one day I will). But, for now, I want to entertain people because that's what I get payed for. And having someone's hand stuck to a table or forgetting the card he picked is entertaining.

So, what if it's not "hypnosis"? It's what I want to do and I absolutely don't want my audiences to compare me with those lame guys swinging their pocket watches and having people behave like chickens in front of their friends.

So, if that's the goal of the OP, maybe the "truth" is different, no? If the only tool I have is an hammer, I'll treat every problem as a nail, right? Smile


Put absolutely perfectly
Mindpro
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Then don't say you are serious about learning hypnosis when you really don't. The problem is you guys don't see the damage and false perceptions you leave the audience believing. Then they come to our shows thinking they have seen and know what hypnosis is and have to be told what they have been led to believe is wrong, which is why they aren't getting the results they may be interested in. You are perpetuating incorrect and false beliefs just so you can pretend to "add some hypnosis to your magic show." It's that "so what?' mentality that you are ignorant to and not understanding.
Rssudo
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On Jan 14, 2018, Mindpro wrote:
You are perpetuating incorrect and false beliefs just so you can pretend to "add some hypnosis to your magic show." It's that "so what?' mentality that you are ignorant to and not understanding.


I also tell them I can read their mind, and have accurately predicted a chain of events. They could go to a psychic fair and see someone claim to do the same and look completely different. Nobody has a problem with magicians doing that do they?
Your argument is incoherent and doesn't make sense...
We're magicians and our job is to lie to people while making it entertaining.
Adrien L.
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I think you still don't get it... The OP didn't say he was "serious about learning hypnosis". It was you who assumed that and went for the "default answer".

Now, my advice for the OP was precisely to not use the word "hypnosis" in his performances because I (think I) truly understand the point you are trying to make. But he can still accomplish his goals, doing some amazing pseudo stuff, and entertain people...

That being said, I'm not sure how having someone's pulse jump from finger to finger by "magic", stick his feet on the floor or whatever, would do any arm to a hypnotist...

Quote:
On Jan 14, 2018, Mindpro wrote:
Then don't say you are serious about learning hypnosis when you really don't. The problem is you guys don't see the damage and false perceptions you leave the audience believing. Then they come to our shows thinking they have seen and know what hypnosis is and have to be told what they have been led to believe is wrong, which is why they aren't getting the results they may be interested in. You are perpetuating incorrect and false beliefs just so you can pretend to "add some hypnosis to your magic show."
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Jan 14, 2018, Adrien L. wrote:
I think you still don't get it... The OP didn't say he was "serious about learning hypnosis". It was you who assumed that and went for the "default answer".



This is exactly what he said, I didn;t assume anything...

"am looking to make the jump to hypnosis. I've read quite a few books on hypnosis, however haven't been able to get off the floor and successfully hypnotise..."

THEN, I even specifically asked to be sure and clarify, I didn't assume anything. We've been around here long enough to see where this thread was going from his very first post, which is why I specifically asked.

I agree with you completely with you he should not use the word "hypnosis" or even the implication at all.
Dannydoyle
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I think it is funny that magicians want to act like they don't want make comments like "I absolutely don't want my audiences to compare me with those lame guys swinging their pocket watches and having people behave like chickens in front of their friends."

THEN they want to be thought of AS hypnotists by their audiences. Oh and they don't want to put in the heavy lifting to actually learn anything but still want to be thought of AS hypnotists as if they DO have the knowledge and have put in the time.

Much better to dress up a dopey card trick and think people buy the "I'm a hypnotist" bs line you try to feed them. Newsflash here guys. Audiences are not that dumb. They know the difference in a card trick and hypnosis.

My God if you don't want to be a hypnotist then the pretty obvious solution would be to not be a hypnotist wouldn't it? And I can't remember the last guy I saw use a watch or make anyone act like a chicken. But whatever. Why would you want to be such a bad thing as a hypnotist? It seems like it is just so bad a thing to you why bother?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Adrien L.
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You guys keep me questioning my english Smile

I posted a few times on this thread and in each post I tried to convey the idea that I do NOT want to be seen as a hypnotist... Then you reply like I said the opposite.

Are you so confident in your own truth that you cannot fathom that someone might want different things in life than you? The problem in your answers is that you're assuming there are only two ways: your way or the wrong way. Hypnosis is a pretty vast universe. And it's obviously an attractive aesthetic for magicians. You are (or, at least, seem to be) massively more educated and experienced in the subject than I am, so your answers to people like me and the OP are very, very important, and you just tell him "get proper training (like the one I give Smile ) or don't do it at all". Hearing hat sort of thing from you guys was what kept me from even trying it when I started to get interested in this...

I believe there's a middle ground. There is something for entertainers to incorporate in their own work that will please them and their audiences. I am a big fan of Aaron Alexander's works, as well as Dr. Bill's JP and that kind of stuff that comes from the world of hypnosis, or at least seems to come, but is not hypnosis. The problem with these sort of things is, precisely, what you are saying: there's a tendency to call it hypnosis and that brings a series of implications to the table and I don't want to mess with that. I am absolutely not qualified to do so. So, I think a better answer for the OP would be "it's fine: do your little pseudo-hypnosis stunts, just don't call it hypnosis, because it's not. People will be amazed wether you call it one thing or another. If, on the other hand, you are really serious about it, then get the proper training".

I think we're basically all saying the same thing, right? Smile

And that comment about the pocketwatch-swinging-hypnotist was just to be mean, sorry about that but I couldn't help myself Smile

Quote:
On Jan 14, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
I think it is funny that magicians want to act like they don't want make comments like "I absolutely don't want my audiences to compare me with those lame guys swinging their pocket watches and having people behave like chickens in front of their friends."

THEN they want to be thought of AS hypnotists by their audiences. Oh and they don't want to put in the heavy lifting to actually learn anything but still want to be thought of AS hypnotists as if they DO have the knowledge and have put in the time.

Much better to dress up a dopey card trick and think people buy the "I'm a hypnotist" bs line you try to feed them. Newsflash here guys. Audiences are not that dumb. They know the difference in a card trick and hypnosis.

My God if you don't want to be a hypnotist then the pretty obvious solution would be to not be a hypnotist wouldn't it? And I can't remember the last guy I saw use a watch or make anyone act like a chicken. But whatever. Why would you want to be such a bad thing as a hypnotist? It seems like it is just so bad a thing to you why bother?
Dannydoyle
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I have to admit I am questioning your comprehension of English.

When you talk crap just to be mean what is shocking when people react?

I don't think anything like mine is the only way. But do you believe there are wrong ways to do things?

Can you do me a favor and stop the emogies in posts? It is not 3rd grade where we get smiley faces on our homework.

And I think it is great what you "think a better answer to the OP" is. But don't you see the world as a place for different opinions or is it required that everyone says what you approve of only?

How about you post what you want and everyone will do the same?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Jan 14, 2018, Rssudo wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 14, 2018, Mindpro wrote:
You are perpetuating incorrect and false beliefs just so you can pretend to "add some hypnosis to your magic show." It's that "so what?' mentality that you are ignorant to and not understanding.


I also tell them I can read their mind, and have accurately predicted a chain of events. They could go to a psychic fair and see someone claim to do the same and look completely different. Nobody has a problem with magicians doing that do they?
Your argument is incoherent and doesn't make sense...
We're magicians and our job is to lie to people while making it entertaining.



As a matter of fact, yes many do a problem with telling people you can read their minds. There are so many things you 've said in this post that are simply wrong and inaccurate.

Go to the mentalism forum (Penny) here, the underlying theme is that everyone there has a problem in making such claims, and yes, most of them, just like you are magicians, pretending to be mentalists too.

Being psychic is far different from the art and science of hypnosis. Two completely different things. Next is you lumping hypnosis in with psychic, mentalism and magic is another example of magician's thinking and perceptions but not at all reality. It is all fake, deception, non-real. Not at all the foundation of hypnosis.

The next thing you have wrong, is no, we are not all magicians here. That again would be your own perception, and assumption and incorrect.

I think all of this also goes to show the differences in how amateurs/enthusiasts and working professional so differently view this.

Nothing is incoherent. It is either hypnosis or it is not. Pretty black and white.

Adrien, just to clarify, no one is saying this with regard to you. We are all responding to the OP and the many magicians that come here sharing this exact same perception and belief.

Also, again to clarify, this is not about my own belief and my own truths. It is the reality. I have been coaching, training and teaching entertainers for over 30 years. One of the most important aspects in being a performer is having the right and proper foundation. These include beliefs, perceptions, understanding and most of all how audiences, clients, agents, bookers and others perceive us and accept our performances and the claims we make or imply in our performances. When one's beliefs and performing is based on a wonky, unrealistic or incorrect foundation, it only stands to reasons that everything built on that foundation will be problematic, weak and will eventually lead to problems or perhaps even crumble. So yes, there is much more to it than the shallow level magicians tend to see. I have seen and heard it all - "the audience doesn't know the difference" - they do. "It doesn't matter as long as its entertaining" - again it does, which is what some of us experience on a regular basis coming from the perceptions offered carelessly by magicians. Most magicians operate from a very "me" perspective, not always serving the greater picture.

In the end there are so many different aspects of magic available, one does not have to make a mockery or misrepresent hypnosis when there are many other options and themes to work with.

No one here is trying to "convince" anyone of anything but rather offer an understanding on a greater level that often seems to be missed form those "just wanting to add a little (fake) hypnosis to their show."
Adrien L.
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Quote:
On Jan 14, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
I have to admit I am questioning your comprehension of English.


That's nice. Thank you. Want to try it to have this conversation in my native tongue?

Quote:
On Jan 14, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
When you talk crap just to be mean what is shocking when people react?


I wasn't shocked by the replies to my crap talk. I was shocked that, after about half a dozen posts, you still didn't seem to notice I'm very against using the "I'm the hypnotist" line in my own work.

Quote:
On Jan 14, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
I don't think anything like mine is the only way. But do you believe there are wrong ways to do things?


Yes.

Quote:
On Jan 14, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
Can you do me a favor and stop the emogies in posts? It is not 3rd grade where we get smiley faces on our homework.


Sure thing, Mr. Serious!

Quote:
On Jan 14, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
And I think it is great what you "think a better answer to the OP" is. But don't you see the world as a place for different opinions or is it required that everyone says what you approve of only?


Do you understand the difference between "I think this is" and "this is"? Do you understand the difference between "get proper training. Period" and "depends on what you want to do it and how you want to do it"?

Quote:
On Jan 14, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
How about you post what you want and everyone will do the same?


Ok, can I get back to using emogies (or emojis), then? Smile
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