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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Ramsay Cylinder and Coins routines (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Scott Horn
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When I saw Tim Conover do this live at Magic Live years back I was unfamiliar with the routine and thought I was watching real magic. Since then seen some beautiful performances, including Eric Mead's. I have done some research and know the handling is within my reach am and now motivated to take this one on.

Has a list been compiled of sources for handlings and routines (including variations) of the classic been posted / published ?
Any recommendations for learning sources (preferably video) ?
Jonathan Townsend
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John Carney put out a DVD on the topic. Curtis Kam also has useful work on the trick in his Milan Lecture DVD.

A Genii Magazine issue from a few years back included a DVD with video of Ramsay performing the trick. Watch carefully. It worked for him.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
mrjinglesusa
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Eric Mead is writing a book that will have Tim Conover's handling in it as well.

http://www.timconover.com/news2/
Poof-Daddy
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Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure

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15tahures
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You can find this routine in Piedrahitas’s book. Now in English!

https://youtu.be/VgMUatYbGBU
David Neighbors
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Yea I have A handling or two! One using Lassen's New Stack! But there Waiting there Turn To come out! Smile
David Neighbors



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15tahures
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John Carney´s DVD mentioned by Jonathan Townsend is great,
Scott Horn
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Poof-Daddy... thanks, that reference is great
Michael Rubinstein
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NYCMS dvd series available as downloads or dvds from Vanishing inc magic. C&c routines by Gallo (2), DeSousa, Bertini, and Francis
NEW MANUSCRIPT - TWILIGHT ZONE WILD COIN. All New!! As seen on Penn and Teller Fool Us! PM for details!
Rattle purse 2.0 now available! PM me for details!
New FOUR hour Penguin Live lecture TWO with 23 NEW routines, available for download at: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/7338
Penguin Live lecture One is THREE hours long, and contains 18 coin effects! Available as a dvd or download from Penguin at http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/5960
New York Coin Magic Seminar dvd series available for download at: https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic/magic-dvds/new-york-coin-magic-seminar-downloads/
NEW!! At The Table 2 hour lecture download OR DVD containing 11 routines, including THREE never taught before! Download and dvd avaliable at http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S22380 or http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S22833
Mike Gilbert
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I've also recently fallen in love with this routine and will be giving it a go! The older I get, the more the classics appeal to me. Can't wait!
-Mike Gilbert Smile

"Most of us have two lives. The life we live, and the unlived life within us. Between the two stands Resistance."- Steven Pressfield
Wilktone
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David Roth's version is written up in "Expert Coin Magic" by Richard Kaufman. It eliminates the wand, but must be performed seated if you do it exactly as written up. The handling is similar to hanging coins and can be done with clad coins and any size coin fits.

Doug Brewer has a version in his video Redlight that is one of the easier ones I've come across. It can be performed standing at a table. It uses a wand (sharpie marker) to help clean things up and also adds a [ to help clean things up. There are a couple of spots during the routine where having soft coins would be an advantage, at least with my current coin chops. Brewer uses half dollars (as did I when I played around with it), but I think you could use dollar sized coins, if you want.

In addition to Carney on Ramsay video, John Carney's handling is written up in Carneycopia. It's written up as "Streamlined Cylinder and Coins." According to the text, changes were made to eliminate all but on of Ramsay's feints and sped up the action in the second phase. It does require a wand and probably needs to be silver dollar coins for softness and for the particular handling.
Jonathan Townsend
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Others have notions about performing the trick. I wish folks would start with the Roth version to get a feel for how to play up the magic.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Scott Horn
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Jonathan, Fair point. For myself, and with these kind of routines, I've learned that what works for me is to see a variety of applications, largely so I can assess different handlings (i.e. 4 coins, 3 coins and [, etc.) and, to see if the techniques (sleights) are within my grasp or viable substitutes can be applied.... and (hopefully) always with an eye to how "my" handlings and routinizing plays to the audience. I have, and continue, to use this approach to build and refine a Chop Cup routine.
Jonathan Townsend
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It starts with how you relate to your audiences. Since you mention the Chop cup, you probably already know that Ramsay did a routine with one cup - and that it was pointed at folks who expected him to use certain sleights which were getting popular.

I get the sense folks are confusing the results Ramsay got with the contemporary effects he applied himself to - such as coin through hand, miser's dream, cap and pence, torn and restored paper, cups and balls, cards to pocket...
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Jan 12, 2018, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
NYCMS dvd series available as downloads or dvds from Vanishing inc magic. C&c routines by Gallo (2), DeSousa, Bertini, and Francis


There's a lot of good work on the Cylinder trick in those DVDs. Any chance David Roth would be up to doing a show and tell on his version of that trick at the next Symposium?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Michael Rubinstein
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You never know, he will be doing material he didn't do at the other seminars. Still working on the framework for a new seminar.
NEW MANUSCRIPT - TWILIGHT ZONE WILD COIN. All New!! As seen on Penn and Teller Fool Us! PM for details!
Rattle purse 2.0 now available! PM me for details!
New FOUR hour Penguin Live lecture TWO with 23 NEW routines, available for download at: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/7338
Penguin Live lecture One is THREE hours long, and contains 18 coin effects! Available as a dvd or download from Penguin at http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/5960
New York Coin Magic Seminar dvd series available for download at: https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic/magic-dvds/new-york-coin-magic-seminar-downloads/
NEW!! At The Table 2 hour lecture download OR DVD containing 11 routines, including THREE never taught before! Download and dvd avaliable at http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S22380 or http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S22833
Jonathan Townsend
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@Mike, that's great and best of luck with the latest seminar.

@Scott, how's it going? Have you tried just practicing the magical effect with a Boston Box? It gets interesting for audiences when you make a coin vanish and don't bring it back - instead making a second coin vanish ... Smile Learning how to make that buildup work is pretty much why I keep pointing folks to the Roth routine. He took care of the heavy lifting to make the trick work. Most here probably already know other options for coin number four - can read between the lines on that last vanish to watch their audiences for a cue - then make an informed choice based upon their working circumstances. Again, that routine as written is a safe path toward performing the trick.

Justin Miller posted a double coin vanish that looks like lots of fun. Imagine that as a practical part of your routine. Smile
https://www.facebook.com/jmastonishment/......3129282/
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Christopher Moro
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Quote:
On Jan 20, 2018, Jonathan Townsend wrote:

Justin Miller posted a double coin vanish that looks like lots of fun. Imagine that as a practical part of your routine. Smile
https://www.facebook.com/jmastonishment/......3129282/


Oh. My. God.
Scott Horn
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Johnathan, Still referencing routines. I have done "some" Okito and Boston box work in the past but definitely need to refresh. If I get your point correctly... I agree... the key challenge of the Ramsay routining for me is the sequencing of the 4 vanishes. First, I need to find techniques I already can do or are withing my reach. Second I need a sequencing (flow) that is effective from the audiences perspective. That's why I'm researching a variety of routines.

Given my first constraint.... Justin's vanish is fantastic, but I'm guessing the right hand technique (especially) is a bit out of my range Smile
Jonathan Townsend
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Scott, in Farelli's writeup of the Cylinder routine there's a comment about performing style and those coin vanishes. Ramsay's approach to that part of the trick was very much his style. Charles Bertram had a version in The Modern Conjuror with straight-up vanishes without byplay. The basic trick - coins vanish in one place and are found in another is older still. Try the basics with a Boston Box. You can dump out four coins - cover the box with the lid - make the coins vanish - then show the coins are back in the box. Playing up that process is what beings your style into the trick. The tiny convincer about a marker on the table and the coins appearing under the marker ... try that ploy in a different trick and see if folks notice. Curtis Kam uses a bolt. Others have used a small coin or candy. See how the basic trick plays for you. You may find that building up audience attention with four coin vanishes is not the way you want to perform and choose instead to vanish all four coins at once. Look what Roth did in his Planet routine.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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