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Kbuck54
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Was about ready to order Sucker Punch, until I read that these chips not only have stickers for the colors, but they are plastic. Does anyone know or used the tango TUC chip set? Or who makes the best quality chip?
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tonsofquestions
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Did you see this thread already? http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=202
I think it'll answer a lot of your questions, at least about Tango.

I'm not sure of too many others that use real chips, so it all depends on what kind of gaffs you want, at that point.
inigmntoya
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Yes they're stickers, and yes they're plastic*, but the Sucker Punch set still provides decent value for the $, especially if you can pick one up second hand.
People deal with stickers all the time with STC sets. Make your own customized stickers, add a 3rd color and you can a workable CSB set, the possibilities are all up to you.

*They're poker chips... It's not like they're plastic "coins".
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I use a few different poker chips and they all have pluses and minuses. Sucker Punch... I have no problem with at all as I used the optically clear teflon and got a lot of "bang for my buck" gaffs for several routines. I have poker chips that are clay and 11oz or so (the same as my home poker set) for Lee Asher's 3-Stylin' and they work well (but are perfect with the teflon). and I have some clay chips with "The Ammo" that are awesome chips, cool routines but limited gaffing.
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funsway
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I prefer the steel core chips at the table for poker, Tripoly, etc. It would be great if I could send in chips form my set and have gaffs made to match everything else.
The problem is that chips can't be expanded, so many preferred gaff options are out.

Mr Tango did make me an R/B gaff to match my Shell set and extra chips. Some edge problem vs coins because of the thickness.

My point is, why don't manufacturers make an effort to find out what kind of chips people use in their home and match them?

It is wonderful watch friends playing poker, pick up a couple of chips from the table and do some magic.
It is silly to introduce different chips for every magic effect.

If the advantage of chips over coin is "natural objects," then make it so.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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inigmntoya
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Quote:
On Jan 17, 2018, funsway wrote:
My point is, why don't manufacturers make an effort to find out what kind of chips people use in their home and match them?


No one dominant brand (like Bikes for cards) for it to make a difference?
tonsofquestions
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Quote:
On Jan 17, 2018, inigmntoya wrote:
No one dominant brand (like Bikes for cards) for it to make a difference?


Absolutely this. There are so many colors (even within one set), and so many styles. Thin plastic, weighty clay, even dozens of logos and patterns within one kind of chip. Here's almost a dozen, from the first search result I picked. https://www.kardwell.com/chips.html
And that's just the pattern, not even the color. It's almost amazing to me that chips have somehow standardized on a particular size.

It's worse than the state-quarter problem, because at least those all have the same obverse side - chips do not.
Custom seems like the only way to go there - I remember being surprised Tango offered any at all when they were announced. I always viewed it more as a proof of concept + advertisement (look what we can do! If you want some with a different pattern, contact us for custom work!) than a set that they expected to be a major seller.
funsway
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Another solution is for that gaff manufacturer to make available an entire set of matching chips.
a 200 chip set may only cost $20, but trying to find one that matches your gaff is difficult.

The manufacturer can solve this match problem. I have suggested this to Mr. Tango. Freight is a problem.

To clarify, what I would want to see is: Poker Chip TUC $59.00. With matching 200 chip set of red, white. blue $85.00
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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tonsofquestions
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Why not just construct your own? I disagree that making your own set is hard.
Looking at the chip in the photo here http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S20937 and here http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S20939 (picking a color randomly) they look like they match these: https://www.kardwell.com/heavy.html

Cheaper shipping within the US than from Argentina, and you can construct exactly the set you want, rather than having to get Mr. Tango to do it for you.
Not everyone will want 200 chips in that combination. Others might want more, less, or in different colors. Not everyone even wants extras at all.

It's also a lot of hassle for Mr. Tango. Keeping (a large number of) extra coins in stock adds up both in terms of storage space and funds that are locked up in unsold items. He has to pack and ship them. He has more combinations of items to list and manage. And for what? Would you pay much of a premium for the chips? Even if he can buy them wholesale at half the price listed on that site ($0.10/chip) 200 chips would be $20. So he's making a tiny profit on top of all of that - it's just not worth his time or effort, especially considering how easy it would be for those who care enough to do it themselves.
inigmntoya
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I wonder if it would be cost effective to 3D print chips in quantity?
Would be a piece of cake to make them ready made to house shims, m*gn*ts, or half thickness for "C/S" chips, etc. - even the 3 pieces needed to make a fl*pp*r.
tonsofquestions
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I suspect 3d printing would take a very long time for the amount of plastic (and simplicity) of the object - I'd bet injection molding or stamping (clay?) would make more sense.

My personal issue would be that plastic chips are just too light. I know that was one of the oft-criticized aspects of Sucker Punch. I have a strong preference towards weighty items - that's why I like coins and things - they have more of a heft and substance to them when manipulated. The plastic chips are just too insubstantial, and I'd fear that anything 3D printed would feel similar.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd have to hold it before being able to tell for certain.
funsway
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Try the steel core chips. Weigh 13-15 oz and are very handleable - and make a nice sound and attach to a magnet

The only problem is that the shipping is more than the item itself. I doubt they could be 3D printed, but a metal shim could be build in for weight.

Of course, a real coin could be covered with goo to look like a poker chip, but that might not be progress ...
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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tonsofquestions
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Are there steel core, *plastic* chips? I've only ever seen those with the clay/composite chips. I haven't looked too hard, though, as I still prefer coins.
funsway
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Methinks it is definitional - "Plastic is material consisting of any of a wide range of synthetic or semi-synthetic organic compounds that are malleable and so can be molded into solid objects."

clay/composite chips are plastic. I meant to differentiate from stamped metal coins, not to specify a material.

But this does bring up questions of "What is a coin?" Is a molded metal object a coin just because it is flat and has an image on it?
Does "coin " mean something actually used in monetary exchange? Chips can have an arbitrary value in a casino.
Are the metal dollars used in casinos coins or chips?

We use the term "poker chip" to indicate artificial coins of flexible value used in popular gambling and games.
Its use falls under "coin magic" as opposed to C&B or ropes.

I think most are comfortable with understanding your "I still prefer coins" as not to refer to poker chips, but material of the latter is not indicated.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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inigmntoya
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Clay chips aren't plastic by any stretch of the imagination.
tonsofquestions
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Some interesting philosophical questions you raise, but it feels a bit like the "is chili a soup, stew, or it's own category?" argument that, in the end, feels a bit contrived.

A quick search on the internet provides a rough sense of answers.

Plastic a synthetic polymer.
Clay is (typically) fine-grained dirt/sediment that can be molded and dried into a hard, solid object.

Poker chips can be made from a range of materials, with lots of info here:
http://www.pokerchest.com/poker-chip-information.html
There are cheap, flimsy plastic chips, and also sturdy 100% clay chips.
There are also "Clay Composite" and "Composite" chips which vary in type of material (mixtures of materials, differently compressed plastics, etc.)

In particular, (pure) plastic chips chips do not have metal inserts (they're 100% plastic), while the "composite" chip types typically do, since they're a mixture of materials, even if most of the other materials are plastic.

So the short version is that clay chips absolutely exist, and do not have plastic. (Some) composite chips may contain plastic but are significantly heavier, so are in a category to themselves, thus the distinction I made in my previous post. Because of the compression going on in the composite materials, it seems unlikely that you'd be able to 3D print it (though I could be wrong). However, it does seem like there are a couple of new clay 3D printers, so perhaps that would be an option. It's still likely to be slow/expensive, though, compared to other methods. Especially if you want multiple colors/patterns.



As far as "coins" go, Google defines one as "a flat, typically round piece of metal with an official stamp, used as money."
Wiktionary adds "2. A token used in a special establishment like a casino (also called a chip).", but I'd argue the fact that it has to have a caveat for both "token" and "chip" takes away from this. Wikipedia suggests that "casino tokens [chips]" are "small discs used in lieu of currency in casinos" which, to me, gets to the crux of it.

Currency (of which coins qualify) are widely accepted in many establishments and (frequently) internationally recognized. Casino chips are typically only valid within the walls of the operating casino, and have no meaningful value elsewhere. Old coins may not currently have value, but previously did (again, widely recognized), e.g. English Pennies.
You could also make an argument about collecting - I don't know of many who collect poker chips (though I'm sure they exist), but know of many coin collectors.

I'm not sure which "metal dollars" you refer to, but I suspect they fall in the same soup or stew grey area, kind of like palming coins.

I agree chips fall under "coin magic" because they are coin-like (shape, size, sometimes weight), but we also tend to consider "gift cards" to be in the "money magic" category, even though they aren't "money" in the usual sense of the word.

I stand behind my original statement as perfectly clear. I'm [personally] not a big fan of [poker] chips [regardless of material], as I prefer [metal] coins.
Matthew Crabtree
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It is pretty simple to make clay chips at home. There are more than enough how to on line. From there it is just making 6our own silicone molds for some of the gaffs. Again more than enough how to on that as well.
Mb217
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Quote:
On Jan 15, 2018, Kbuck54 wrote:
Was about ready to order Sucker Punch, until I read that these chips not only have stickers for the colors, but they are plastic. Does anyone know or used the tango TUC chip set? Or who makes the best quality chip?


Not sure about "who makes the best quality chip," but I do know that John Jurney has developed a finely made "metal chip" option, along with a stellar routine with it. You might check out this option, as his whole goal was to avoid using stickers, and he came up with something quite unique in the genre. You should check it out as he has just progressed this coin set to another level of quality & craftsmanship, using chips. Smile

Shoot him an email and tell'em Mb sent'cha: jjurney14@comcast.net
*Check out my latest: Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

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funsway
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A clarification based on my being from Nevada, working in casinos and having been part of producing a anti counterfeit photo book for the State.
Thus, some of the laws might have changed recently and be worth checking as to terminology.

The metal, dollar-size tokens used in casinos must be specific to that entity and have no value of exchange outside of that casino. That would be counterfeiting.
A chip, however, is not viewed as a substitute coin and can be honored by other casinos and venders. Gamblers used to leave them as restaurant tips, pay for cab rides, etc,
There use outside of the casino of origin is not counterfeiting, but any store or casino accepts them at their own risk. It was a courtesy.

I doubt that chips claimed to be "real casino chips" can be redeemed for the printed value or if that casino even exists anymore.
However, there are collectors for chips from defunct casinos and their value has nothing to do with the printed amount.

I even wonder at the claim of "casino style" chips. I miss the days where actual dollars were used (except for torn pockets)
There was something more magical about tossing a real silver dollar onto a table - or even the sandwiched Ike.

I also love coins more, but would like the ability to be playing poker, pick up some "random chips" and perform a magic effect. Digging out some "special chips" doesn't work.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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Stanyon
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[quote]On Jan 16, 2018, Poof-Daddy wrote:

"I have poker chips that are clay and 11oz or so (the same as my home poker set) for Lee Asher's 3-Stylin' and they work well (but are perfect with the teflon)." (quote)

WOW...Poof, you must have some serious guns on 'ya. Those chips are HUGE! Smile
Stanyon

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