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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Essentials in Magic, Cups and Balls (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

rboyd
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Devon
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I'm looking at getting the above DVD by Daryl. I am well aware for the high regard Daryl is held in so seems like a safe bet.

I would just like to check first however that this is a good DVD for beginners and whether anyone has any different recommendations for beginners cups and balls DVD/steam.

Thanks in advance.
karnak
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Colorado
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I’m sure Daryl’s is also great, but the benchmark gold standard for a pretty comprehensive DVD introduction to the cups & balls seems to Michael Ammar’s highly recommended 2-DVD set.
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Mobius303
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Daryl's is good for beginners. He does not teach a wand spin on it because Daryl never learned one.
Michael's is also great.
Mr. Woolery
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The Ammar set is encyclopedic in nature. It is a collection of moves and techniques. It is very valuable, but you still need to construct a routine. I have not seen Daryl’s.

I found the Worlds Greatest Magic Cups and Balls dvds to be very good for seeing a lot of routines that are very good. I feel these are a great adjunct to the Ammar set.

Patrick
Joshua Barrett
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I preferred the Ammar DVD, better even is the book which is hard to find but the PDF is available on llpub
rboyd
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Devon
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Thanks guys. Interesting to hear your responses, this is exactly why I asked!

Could you let me know if Ammar's DVD set is suitable for beginners? I want something that will give me a good education but also ease me in as I can only do a very basic routine at the moment. Thanks
funsway
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old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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Quote:
On Feb 2, 2018, rboyd wrote:
Thanks guys. Interesting to hear your responses, this is exactly why I asked!

Could you let me know if Ammar's DVD set is suitable for beginners? I want something that will give me a good education but also ease me in as I can only do a very basic routine at the moment. Thanks



Then you do not need a DVD that might drown you in possibilities. Many good books available that offer a step-by=step learning approach. (incremental learning)

Once you have the basic dozen moves/sleights mastered -- then the comprehensive DVD might make sense.
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rboyd
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Devon
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To be clear, the basic routine I can do is the one shown in the kids magic sets. (ball hidden in middle cup at the beginning).

Really want to learn something more advanced. If books are better, any particular recommendations?
funsway
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Cups and balls magic by tom osborne is a classic - maybe $5.00
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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Joshua Barrett
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The Ammar stuff goes from beginner to advanced ... goes from the basic moves and sequences and through the Vernon and Ammar routines. I've not performed the cups in 10 years, so I'm going back over it myself Smile

The best book is going to be The Complete Cups and Balls from llpub. It's only available as a Ebook.
Mobius303
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The Ammar videos and the book are an excellent resource.
The Daryl video is also an excellent resource.
Both are good if you are building a routine and do not know techniques.
If you are going from beginner to advanced routines then you will want to see, envision and then build a routine that will fit your style. The move monkeys will always say build your techniques and then build your routine or routines from there. Both of the videos I mentioned will allow you to do just that.
Cups and Balls is quite a diverse and excellent trick with which to find and build your own style and routine from.
There is much to study out there
Most people start with the Vernon routine. Roberto Giobbi has an excellent write up of it in his lecture notes. It is on video on youtube and also on a number of different DVD's including the Ammar video.
David Williamson has a different routine with 2 cups on his set Ridiculous video set as well as his 1st video. The Johnny Thompson routine is another excellent routine that has a great story presentation. Susanne the magician has another excellent story presentation. My point is that if you are beginning then choose where you want to go and then work towards your goal and if you do not know where to go then either video should be good to begin with.
Mr. Woolery
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I would actually suggest the routine from Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic for a first routine. It incorporates the phase that you mention, but also gets into actual sleight of hand. Get comfortable with that routine, then look at other sources.

As to video sources, I find watching actual routines to be more valuable than watching the explanations. However, the explanations are sort of vital for some of them, so they matter, too. Watching the routines is about watching performances. How does the performer work the audience? How does he/she keep the audience interested in a trick that is really not all that interesting on its own?

World's Greatest Magic DVDs, as mentioned, are excellent resources. Lots of good routines on them.

Al Schneider has a DVD with L&L that is just C&B material. I find him to be a rather understated performer, but very good and engaging as almost a friend in the room instead of they guy who always has to be the center of attention. And he has some great thinking on C&B.

In truth, beyond watching the Ammar videos, I don't find them all that inspiring for learning. They are a series of moves. If I wanted to learn new moves, they'd be great, but I want to learn how to construct a routine more than I want to learn a new move to put in it.

-Patrick
mandrax
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Daryl was a very good teacher. The DVD is very progressive and teach complete routine at the end. Highly recommended. I would use them with the Ammar DVD to learn the different style.
Huzzah
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Daryl's DVD is very good, an excellent start for a beginner. It's where I started.
rboyd
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Devon
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Daryls DVD has arrived and consumed. It was more basic than I expected social but did teach me a good little routine. I have no regrets though as it was only £10 and is very accessible for my children.

I will no doubt purchase to Ammar's DVD to build on what Daryl has tought me. Thanks for the advice.
61magic
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Let me add a little here. I would say all the videos and books mentioned are good sources. You will find many of the same moves in the material but each teacher has little subtleties that can make a huge difference in a routine.
The main object is not not copy the routines outlined in any of the sources but to create your own based on practice. The materials should be considered references to draw from and not something to be used bit for bit as published.
The Mark Wilson course and the Tom Osborne books are great starters for those who learn from written sources, for those who do better visually the Daryl video is great.
Once you have reasonably mastered the material move on to the Ammar material. The Vernon routine which is considered a classic is something you should study but don't copy.
Don't make the mistake of jumping to the advanced material and develop a bunch of bad habits, slow and methodical is the way to go.
One book source which doesn't get a lot of attention is the Bruce Elliot Classic Secrets of Magic, some really great routines and ideas in this book.
Professor J. P. Fawkes
Pete Biro
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I disagree a bit on "do not do the Vernon routine." It is one of the best to use on lay audiences, as they can follow the effects of each phase.
To many routines are confusing to your audience. Smile
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61magic
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Pete if you are referring to what I said it wasn't a don't "Do" the routine, is was a don't "Copy" the routine. The Vernon routine is a classic but too many beginners what to copy it move for move.
Studying great material and developing an original routine is still the best way to go.
Professor J. P. Fawkes
gomerel
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Daryl's Essentials DVDs are excellent. Books are fine if that is your learning style. It is not mine. I can't imagine that a *beginner* would need or benefit from more than Daryl. Also, I want to support his widow and daughters.
Dr Rick
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The Daryl part 1 dvd talks about cup choices, the basic routines that come with a kids magic set (about the first third of the Mark Wilson routine) and starts talking about final loads including final load to one cup. Good primer until you get bitten by the bug and need more
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