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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Outlaw Effects Builds (51 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Darkness
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It's MR. Darkness
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With all due respect. If you need it explained winks then I don't know what else to add. Practice occult themed effects and divination and tell yourself your church would welcome that under the guise of entertainment. To each their own I guess.
RCP
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Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas
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Not to detract away from the Outlaw theft thread but a number of people in certain professions struggle with the "ethics" of some areas of the art. Clearly being in a play is much different from less structured performances. I know that persons with a professional license subject themselves to significant liability by giving otherwise innocent appearing readings.
gothicmagic
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Indeed we are straying into disclaimer/disclosure (fortune telling, divination, curse removal, faith healing, etc.)
the play is the thing (Aiden mentioned someone "attempted to sue him after a performance as they claimed a "demon" followed their client home, Aidens attorneys response Bring it)
if we disclaim too much we lessen the theater (no one stands beyond the curtain before Les Miserables and reminds people they are not actually viewing a revolution), I myself thankfully have no such conflicts in my life, what you see is what you get

but all of this indeed has little to do with Outlaw
Vlad ^0^
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Winks
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I'll say this one last thing - Darkness, on the day you see me conducting a seance or a divination or calling a demon, you may rightfully call me on it. In the meantime, I do not think collecting apparatus and enjoying others' art while recognizing the illusion gives you reason to judge me.
RCP
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Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas
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Https://www.mylife.com/rick-rothbart/e732900720510

looks like Roth's troubles are bigger than the magic community. It's always sad to see someone sink this low. While he frustrated me often, I got everything I bought from him. I defended him early on as problems emerged. Based on what we know today I would advise no one to do any kind of business with him.
Darkness
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It's MR. Darkness
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Don't make it about you. I really don't care what you do. This is about Outlaw it just happens that I made examples to make a point.
Winks
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You made it. I, too, have been cheated by Roth. I'm sorry someone peed in your Wheaties.
Darkness
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Huh? Unless your name is Chris fom Outlaw, I wasn't originally addressing you. Sorry you mistake me for being angry. Hardly, more like disgusted.
Rocketeer
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Wow. This thread has been quite an eye opener. I did business with Rick years ago. I bought some of his merch and edited the instructions that came with a couple of effects. I never got burnt. I guess I should count myself lucky. Sad story.
I'm selling my hardcover autographed limited edition copy of Jerome Finley's "Thought Veil"

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252life
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I have zero pity, for anyone that decided to make a buck with him, knowing his history.
This, "we wanted to help the poor guy out" stuff is garbage.
Everyone has known for years that he's (Rick Roth/Rothbart) is a scumbag thief.
I think everyone involved, was very aware of "the whispering behind the scenes".
What a load to insinuate being less then fully aware of the situation you decided to cash in on.
It's not been a secret. It's been vented, disused, and argued here for years now.

(Side Note:
I think he's, unfortunately, lowered the bar for the bizarre community in general.
Anyone receive the updated Luna yet?
No.
When pre ordered, was due by November.
Still waiting.
Now, this is from Vic, (NOT Rick. Want no confusion)who I tend to like a lot.
But, regardless of the myriad of excuses, this kind of delay seems normal only in this community.
three months late, and still being postponed.)

Back to Rick, he's garbage and a thief.
He's also a coward.
"The Dark Lord" is afraid to defend himself on a forum lol what a walking joke he is.

Thanks for the time folks. I feel better already.
steven-gibson
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Eastcoastspiritsessions.com
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Wow, I'm shocked to see you throw Vic from Gemini Artifacts into this conversation. Vic is a well-respected straight shooter. A manufacturing error delayed shipment of the new book test. That could happen to anyone.
bud.scott
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Quote:
On Feb 12, 2018, 252life wrote:

(Side Note:
I think he's, unfortunately, lowered the bar for the bizarre community in general.
Anyone receive the updated Luna yet?
No.
When pre ordered, was due by November.
Still waiting.


I too have a Luna on order, as of Feb 8th per his newsletter "LUNA UPDATE
LUNA UPDATE - I was told by the binder that they were in todays shipment to me. Once I have them I will need to age them. I will get them out as fast as possible. Thank you for your patience."

I talked to Vic at ECSS and he told me the binder screwed up, and the cover was not what he asked for, so they had to be rebound.

I been burned by Rick in the past as well and feel it is unfair to lump Vic in with him due to a delay on one item. Anything else I have purchased from Vic has been shipped on time. Vic is a stand-up guy and doesn't deserve to be compared to the likes of Rick Roth.
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gothicmagic
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252life I'm hoping you aren't throwing us at the ECSS in the "making money off the situation" as we didn't make anything off of it
(was it wrong to let him attend possibly, but it was thought that some may get to speak to him there and fix their issues, obviously that didn't work) if you don't agree with that sorry too bad that was the reality of it
(no scheming or whispers were involved in our decision) so once again we cashed in on zero
just clearing the air, so it can't be used as a jumping off point later somewhere else
Vlad ^0^
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www.Gothicmagic.com
Scott Douglas
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I think moving forward conventions and gatherings like ECSS should consider banning/barring him from attending, if that isn't already in the works.

It's an insult to all the talented creators, not to mention regular attendees, to be sharing space with someone that only seems to be consistent at making excuses and taking money from people.

I think that would be a strong message from the community.
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gothicmagic
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Rick was not included in any other than the first ECSS, and there aren't any future plans
Vlad ^0^
One of The Founding Fathers of The East Coast Spirit Sessions
www.Gothicmagic.com
RCP
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Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas
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Quote:
On Feb 12, 2018, 252life wrote:
I have zero pity, for anyone that decided to make a buck with him, knowing his history.
This, "we wanted to help the poor guy out" stuff is garbage.
Everyone has known for years that he's (Rick Roth/Rothbart) is a scumbag thief.
I think everyone involved, was very aware of "the whispering behind the scenes".
What a load to insinuate being less then fully aware of the situation you decided to cash in on.
It's not been a secret. It's been vented, disused, and argued here for years now.

(Side Note:
I think he's, unfortunately, lowered the bar for the bizarre community in general.
Anyone receive the updated Luna yet?
No.
When pre ordered, was due by November.
Still waiting.
Now, this is from Vic, (NOT Rick. Want no confusion)who I tend to like a lot.
But, regardless of the myriad of excuses, this kind of delay seems normal only in this community.
three months late, and still being postponed.)

Back to Rick, he's garbage and a thief.
He's also a coward.
"The Dark Lord" is afraid to defend himself on a forum lol what a walking joke he is.

Thanks for the time folks. I feel better already.


That is a pretty wide brush of accusations.....Roth for many years (10+) over promised and under delivered. For the most part he eventually delivered and or paid his subs. About 3 years ago is when he really started to cheat people. I am not sure people being naive and trying to help someone they knew along time is a fault.

To lump Vic into the same category is offensive to me. He could have just sent out the sub par binding to you but he didn't. Luna is to my knowledge the 1st item he has ever sold that was not in stock. I have mixed feelings about pre-orders. I understand someone not wanting to take on the upfront cost without knowing how many might be sold. I rarely do pre-orders unless I know the seller.

Roth is not the first and probably not the last scumbag that steals from people here. There is a long list, all with a sob story, of why they over promised and disappeared as thieves.
RCP
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Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas
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Quote:
On Feb 12, 2018, gothicmagic wrote:
Rick was not included in any other than the first ECSS, and there aren't any future plans


Not to be argumentative but Aiden Sinclair was tricked into being Roth's surrogate one year but helped many a person fulfill outstanding orders much to Roth's disdain. Like Vic Aiden is another stand up guy in my opinion.
gothicmagic
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Let's drop the ECSS connection as I've already stated our reasoning behind things,
we don't make anything on Any of our dealers (they get a table when register as a courtesy to help offset their expenses to get there)
Vic is a stand up guy (yes indeed Aiden did get screwed and missed most of that year babysitting props)
now back to the original topic
Vlad ^0^
One of The Founding Fathers of The East Coast Spirit Sessions
www.Gothicmagic.com
RCP
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Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas
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Quote:
On Feb 12, 2018, gothicmagic wrote:
Let's drop the ECSS connection as I've already stated our reasoning behind things,
we don't make anything on Any of our dealers (they get a table when register as a courtesy to help offset their expenses to get there)
Vic is a stand up guy (yes indeed Aiden did get screwed and missed most of that year babysitting props)
now back to the original topic

Yes, I should have made clear ECSS is a stand up group and not in any way associated with the failings of Outlaw. Many of us were too accommodating to Roth's poor practices and slow to recognize the out right fraud as it developed.
Buddhaweasel
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Just to get this off my chest,

Firstly, I would like to apologize for my part in enabling Rick. I spent Gods know how many hours on the phone with him over the years and understood long ago that he was a sick (clinically so) individual. I did my best to keep things going and above board trying to get the best work out of my shop and out to you guys in a timely fashion. That did not always happen. Sometimes it was my own fault for getting overbooked between my work and Rick's. More often it was Rick feeding his need to close a deal even knowing that I would be out of town and unavailable for three weeks among his other shady ****. He did get progressively worse over the years and my last year working with him was the worst. Hence, my departure.

Secondly, I understand how he operates and you should too. It is a constant juggle with him to stay ahead in his own little one man pyramid scam. Pre-orders on an unfinished prototype get purchased and he blows the money on whatever. When production time comes he no longer has the money so wheels and deals for cash to get the first few orders filled and spark interest with delivered goods - which gets a few more of the pre-orders produced. And so on down the line until in the past couple years he has sunk beyond his ability to float and repay his debts.

If anyone deserves pity it is Rick and his family. I urged him on multiple occasions to get professional help - but people with his brand of mental illness don't see the need. He's like a junkie always looking for the next fix until it kills him. The only way to help him is to shut him down until a court order parks his ass in an institution for a serious intervention.

Rick can come up with some brilliant **** and we created some great effects together. If Vic catches this - Fine, work with Rick for ideas, but don't let him handle any or the orders, production or delivery. He can't be trusted to do what is right.

I was serious with my earlier posts about getting the AG involved and out of the business. This was not out of spite or vengeance, but to get him the help he needs and make this community a better place all around.
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