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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Outlaw Effects Builds (49 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dr SH
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Elite user
French Spirit in Sydney
409 Posts

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Thank you Karl for the public apology. It is always the first step in a healing process. I think it is crucial. This Outlaw stories was really too long. I was very disheartening to witness, I have not contributed to the bizarre forum since the last post on Outlaw disappeared in August last year.

Obviously like in any problem it is never an unique cause. The responsibility of the situation is share at different levels.

Rick is obviously unwell and have many difficulties, we can only think to his family. People who contributed to his business by working for him even if they knew what was happening with Rick’s customer and enabling him to continue his business. The café who deleted posts of anybody complaining about Outlaw. The customers who were always jumping on any critic toward Rick’s service and added “ I always received everything from Outlaw ” , even if it was true , it was contributing for new /fresh customer to try his products and continue the vicious circle. So many layers of complexity contributed to this situation, so many ethical questions raised by this situation.

I feel it affected deeply our small community. I don’t only think to those who lost their money, to those who had the stress to send thousands of emails hoping to have an answer, to those angry who received another email “it is coming next week my friend”; I also think of all our great creators who were not rewarded because the money of our small community was diverted toward Outlaw.

Luckily our community is full of people willing to make some change, willing to apologize, willing to share, willing to organise great conference, willing to contribute positively to our art. We have great seller (Vic, Dan, Taylor….), we have amazing creators and plenty of people willing to bring more magic around in this world.
RCP
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Inner circle
Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas
2061 Posts

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Thank you Karl, 1st for all the wonderful effects you created and for coming forward now with an apology which you don't owe. He had plenty of people that didn't want to believe the worst. For those that don't know Roth was an annuity salesman before Outlaw. He shared some of the high pressure quotas he was under with me over coffee at ECSS. His wife was not happy when he walked away from that life (house, money, lifestyle) With the success of the 1st spiritus and shortly afterwards the re-animator I think is when he really started spinning out of control. He was always frustrating to deal with but he kept enough of us happy to continue here. For along time he really was the only source for effects. He called me one night furious because I had bought and reviewed one of Dan's items. As he lost his creators and more reliable sources became available he got worse. Like all ponzi schemes he had to rob peter to pay paul and eventually ran out of supporters. Sad all around......
IAIN
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Eternal Order
england
16391 Posts

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I wouldn't say it was sad...

Manipulating, bullying, lying, cheating, conniving...yes...

Sad...maybe not...

All the people who used to act as Rick's digital bodyguards, they should be apologising too...
NEW RELEASE - VALID-DICTION BOOKLET
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Lucien Astor
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Sunken R'lyeh
639 Posts

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Quote:
On Feb 13, 2018, IAIN wrote:
I wouldn't say it was sad...

Manipulating, bullying, lying, cheating, conniving...yes...

Sad...maybe not...

All the people who used to act as Rick's digital bodyguards, they should be apologising too...


Well said. For years those cronies bullied and manipulated facts, defended Rick's ethics for their own opportunism, and should now be ashamed of themselves. At the end they too got screwed over, and are now crying foul. They know who they are.
http://www.mediumarts.ca: Psychic Entertainment & Contemporary Art
RCP
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Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas
2061 Posts

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Quote:
On Feb 13, 2018, IAIN wrote:
I wouldn't say it was sad...

Manipulating, bullying, lying, cheating, conniving...yes...

Sad...maybe not...

All the people who used to act as Rick's digital bodyguards, they should be apologising too...


A little self serving there Iain or have you forgotten your defense of your "friend" that ripped off a bunch of people? I have seen it countless times, people get in over their heads, lifes problems come along. There is a long list of offenders in magic if you want to start slinging dirt.
Darkness
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It's MR. Darkness
1428 Posts

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Anyone in the know who bought from Outlaw in the last two years should be apologizing. No sales equals no business.

BTW Rick is most likely loving us keeping this thread up high. He thrives on the attention negative and all. If you really want him to go away we need to stop posting and talking about him period. Its the greater good over the few that might buy and get ripped off. These posts are not preventing sales. Let the buyer beware. Let this thread sink with him.
LebanonCircle
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London, UK
833 Posts

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First and foremost, the Magic Café should be held partly responsible for years of deleting posts about Rick and Outlaw such as these warning about his business practices.

Magicians helping Magicans? Utter b*ll*cks as we like to call it here in the UK...

I started a post about this around 6 months ago, but is was deleted, hence I now have my own forum where people can say what they want...
vianns
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France - Paris
130 Posts

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Kinda sad, I bought many items 2-3 years ago, every one of them came to me flawlessly...
atouchofmagic1
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421 Posts

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Quote:
On Feb 12, 2018, bud.scott wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 12, 2018, 252life wrote:

(Side Note:
I think he's, unfortunately, lowered the bar for the bizarre community in general.
Anyone receive the updated Luna yet?
No.
When pre ordered, was due by November.
Still waiting.


I too have a Luna on order, as of Feb 8th per his newsletter "LUNA UPDATE
LUNA UPDATE - I was told by the binder that they were in todays shipment to me. Once I have them I will need to age them. I will get them out as fast as possible. Thank you for your patience."

I talked to Vic at ECSS and he told me the binder screwed up, and the cover was not what he asked for, so they had to be rebound.

I been burned by Rick in the past as well and feel it is unfair to lump Vic in with him due to a delay on one item. Anything else I have purchased from Vic has been shipped on time. Vic is a stand-up guy and doesn't deserve to be compared to the likes of Rick Roth.


Vic most certainly is a stand up guy. I was able to scoop up one of the new books before it sold out and its amazing.

Regarding Rick, I placed an order from him a few months back for a Carnie Tarot. He wanted me to pay via friends and family to avoid fees, I refused that telling him I would not be protected. He kept on telling me how he would knock money off and give me all these great deals. He offered to throw in freebies as well. I declined explaining to him his reputation that I had heard about while he blew it off as nonsense. However, against my better judgement I placed the order anyway. I did receive my deck about 4 days after the purchase was made via priority mail. Emails continued for weeks after with him offering me all these amazing deals on his new products. I suspect had I paid him friends and family I would have been screwed I got lucky I suppose.

-Bob
Wizard of Oz
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Most people wish I didn't have
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I never, ever, pay vendors anywhere using the PayPal friends and family feature. If I hear the "avoid the fee" argument, I pay the difference but still go through regular PayPal. If they complain after that, you are still protected, and they have no legs to stand on.

I learned the hard way. Fool me once...
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
weepinwil
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Inner circle
USA
2805 Posts

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Quote:
On Mar 4, 2018, Wizard of Oz wrote:
I never, ever, pay vendors anywhere using the PayPal friends and family feature. If I hear the "avoid the fee" argument, I pay the difference but still go through regular PayPal. If they complain after that, you are still protected, and they have no legs to stand on.

I learned the hard way. Fool me once...


I have done the F&F with those who are truly considered Friends and/or family. If I do not know the person, and they insist on F&F to save the fees, I have reimbursed the fees as well, especially if that was an issue with the sale.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
WitchDocChris
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Inner circle
York, PA
1627 Posts

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Quote:
On Mar 4, 2018, Wizard of Oz wrote:
I never, ever, pay vendors anywhere using the PayPal friends and family feature. If I hear the "avoid the fee" argument, I pay the difference but still go through regular PayPal. If they complain after that, you are still protected, and they have no legs to stand on.

I learned the hard way. Fool me once...


I suspect many of us here on the Café have basically the same story. I always use the Goods & Services option unless it genuinely is friends or family.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
atouchofmagic1
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Elite user
421 Posts

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Quote:
On Mar 4, 2018, Wizard of Oz wrote:
I never, ever, pay vendors anywhere using the PayPal friends and family feature. If I hear the "avoid the fee" argument, I pay the difference but still go through regular PayPal. If they complain after that, you are still protected, and they have no legs to stand on.

I learned the hard way. Fool me once...


I should clarify that I did pay via goods and services. I just paid the retail price
Instead of accepting his amazing good deal if had gone with friends and family.
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