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warren
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For those who perform a multiple card routine ie a routine involving at least 6 selections I have a few questions.
Which control do you prefer to use out of the following 2 ?

Doc Eason's control which basically has him riffle down the side of the deck until the spectator says stop, he shows the card, closes the deck and then repeats.

Aldo Colombini's fireworks control which basically has you deal cards off singularly into your hand until the spectator calls stop, you show the card and then continue dealing cards off until the next spectator calls stop.

Please notice I'm not interested in other controls such as the side steal as whenever I see it used for multiple cards it always looks obvious to me so I wouldn't be able to relax using that method.

Another question do you find that people forget their cards as it can be a bit of a wait before the reveal and people tend to forget their cards at the best of times let alone in such a long routine and if so how do you deal with it ?

This brings me to my next question, is it vital that every spectator selects a card at the table ?

Finally and this may sound a little strange as I'm actually working on a multiple card routine myself but do you think multiple selection routines are more impressive to magicians than a lay audience as my wife is more impressed by routines such as Contact Colors etc ?
puggo
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Hi Warren
Perhaps not answering the question, but have you seen John Guastaferro's multi-selection control sequence in multi-mental?
It may be of interest
charlie
warren
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Quote:
On Mar 8, 2018, puggo wrote:
Hi Warren
Perhaps not answering the question, but have you seen John Guastaferro's multi-selection control sequence in multi-mental?
It may be of interest
charlie


Yes I have one of his downloads, he has some nice touches on Aldo's control and I've added his reversal to my own routine as the method makes me smile...going off topic I like his Homage To Homing routine too Smile
SimonCard
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Spread cull is a good alternative.
warren
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Quote:
On Mar 8, 2018, SimonCard wrote:
Spread cull is a good alternative.


I'm not sure how that would work as with multiple selections it's important that the selection process is as quick as possible because depending on the amount of cards selected that's a lot of dead time as I presume a spread cull would require the cards to be removed from the deck and then returned unless I'm missing something ?
Gerald Deutsch
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I've always been concerned that (1) with multiple selections (2) where it takes time to reveal them all (3) that one or more of those whose cards are revealed last may forget their card.
Churken2
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Hi Warren,

I prefer Doc Eason's control. There are other good ones as well, but you only asked about the two.

I will have 10-15 spectators select cards. If there are more people than that, I joke around with them and limit my selections to 10-15 people. If there are 10 or less people, I have everyone select a card. If there are over 10, I play it by ear. (leads into next remark) More than 15 takes to long and is actually less impressive. Each revelation should be better than the last, so having too many cards selected is very hard to deal with.

There certainly is a possibility that people may forget a card. If there are 15 people for example, you could have 8 people select cards and the remaining people can help them remember the selections. I ALWAYS look at one of the cards selected. If someone is playing with me, or someone across a large table with glasses on, I will show them the card, then look at it myself, name it, and move on. It fits my personality and gets a laugh. Beyond getting a laugh, it reinforces that it is important for everyone to remember their card.

Finally, I have been performing my multiple selection routine for lay audiences for over 20 years and can tell you without reservation that it gets fantastic reactions.
Churken2
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Also, I know that it says this is my first post, but that is only because I had to create a new user name due to the Menu's email requirements.
Zauberman
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Excellent questons Warren. I struggled with the same questions while working on multiple selection.

One control that looks good and works well....is "Thick Card" by Steve Bedwell. He has a booklet that deals with using a thick card for multiple selection. I used it for a while....liked it....but ended up using a side control (which I believe I do quite well Smile )

Yes, people do forget their card in the real world or occasionally or unintentionally call out the wrong card. I remind people to remember their card and even if they forget....once revealed they usually confirm.

When I was learning, I started off with just 3 selections and as I became more comfortable, kept adding more, til I could do 10 with no problem. And yes, you don't want to leave just one or 2 people out, You can always have couples select one card, which can be funny in itself.

And finally you have to keep it moving and funny. I have found finding multiple selections is impressive to an audience but what really makes the thing work is the constant banter with the audience. That combined with some novel ways of revealing make it entertaining.....otherwise it's just pick a card trick ZZZZZZZ
warren
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Thanks for everyone's input so far it's much appreciated, one of the things mentioned was that having more than 10 cards selected can make the effect a bit to long and doesn't really play much stronger in the real world.

At the moment whilst practicing I've been using 7 selections and have a couple of reveals in reserve but was also considering reducing it to 6 mainly to reduce the length of the routine which would hopefully make remembering the cards easier.

The added bonus of not having everyone select a card is that it allows for a comedy reveal ie you produce a card, ask the spectator what card they chose, when they say they didn't choose a card you then make it disappear etc.
Steven Keyl
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Quote:
On Mar 8, 2018, warren wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 8, 2018, SimonCard wrote:
Spread cull is a good alternative.


I'm not sure how that would work as with multiple selections it's important that the selection process is as quick as possible because depending on the amount of cards selected that's a lot of dead time as I presume a spread cull would require the cards to be removed from the deck and then returned unless I'm missing something ?


No, the cards never leave the deck. I find the spread cull the quickest way to get the selections made and controlled. For a demonstration of this in action, watch Ricky Jay's multiple selection routine from his 52 Assistants show. Quick and deceptive.
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"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
warren
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Quote:
On Mar 9, 2018, Steven Keyl wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 8, 2018, warren wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 8, 2018, SimonCard wrote:
Spread cull is a good alternative.


I'm not sure how that would work as with multiple selections it's important that the selection process is as quick as possible because depending on the amount of cards selected that's a lot of dead time as I presume a spread cull would require the cards to be removed from the deck and then returned unless I'm missing something ?


No, the cards never leave the deck. I find the spread cull the quickest way to get the selections made and controlled. For a demonstration of this in action, watch Ricky Jay's multiple selection routine from his 52 Assistants show. Quick and deceptive.


Having now seen it I agree that would also be a good control even though I didn't ask about other controls haha no offence meant.... one thing that occurred to me watching that control in use is what happens if you run out of cards before all the selections are made ? I know it's about audience management butwith the two controls I mentioned that wouldn't be an issue.

Also as someone that uses a multiple selections routine how do you deal with spectators that have forgotten their card ?

Thanks for your input Steven
Chamberlain
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I use the fireworks control however I secretly turn over the bottom card of the deck before I start, that way once I have shown all the selections I go to the first person and say "When I snap my fingers one card turns over" I spread through the deck and show the face up card, the spectator will react saying it's not their card when I use the standard "I didn't say it would be your card, just that one would turn over" since their card is underneath the face up card I use the twirl change to make it appear. I also mix in an overhand shuffle (shuffling the peeled cards back on top) when doing the fireworks control which helps disguise the method.

Also when I'm coming to the end of having the spectators look at their cards I'll say something like "Now if you forget your card just nod and say yes when I find them later, make me look good" Even if they forget their card I've found people will remember them when you find it later. I also reveal the card before asking them to name it to help prevent any awkward "I dunno" moments.

I've collected enough revelations to find up to 25 cards, however in most events it's normally around 6-10 selections you end up doing.
Steven Keyl
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Quote:
On Mar 9, 2018, warren wrote:

... one thing that occurred to me watching that control in use is what happens if you run out of cards before all the selections are made ? ...



Though it's never happened to me, if I get down near the bottom and still want to offer additional selections, I would just quickly finish spreading to the end of the pack, square the deck, and start again. The newly culled cards will join the previously selected cards at the bottom of the deck. It's up to you whether to do this without comment or say, "we're out of cards... let's start over" I would probably do it without comment, because it should be self-evident that you ran out of cards and had to start over.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!

Come visit Magic Book Report.com!

"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
warren
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Thanks for sharing Steven Smile I have watched a few different routines and noticed that some have the spectators actually remove the cards from the deck and have them put them back individually Mark James being one, others such as Bill Malone and Michael Vincent to name a couple have the cards removed from the deck and then gather all the selections up into a pile and then put them back into the deck as a group.

I have been chatting to a few well known magicians and it seem's that their are mixed feelings as to if multiple selection routines involving 6 or more selections are more entertaining to magicians than to the lay public.

When chatting with Paul Gordon who earns his living with card magic he stated that multiple selection routines are boring for a lay audience and mentioned that although the late great Aldo Colombini put out a few multiple selection routines Aldo didn't actually use those routines for the paying public and that Ricky Jay only did it for that one recorded performance you kindly mentioned but didn't actually perform a multiple selection routine as part of his regular set.

Then on the other hand when I chatted with Michael Vincent he went on to say that it went down very well with lay audiences so it must definitely be a personal thing.

I'm on the fence at the moment although for the time being I'll continue to work on my own multiple selection routine Smile
Harry Lorayne
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Warren: You might want to post here the couple of back-&-forth we did personally re: multiple selections. Don't know if that'd help anyone, but it might.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

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http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
mlippo
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Quote:
On Mar 12, 2018, Chamberlain wrote:
I use the fireworks control however I secretly turn over the bottom card of the deck before I start, that way once I have shown all the selections I go to the first person and say "When I snap my fingers one card turns over" I spread through the deck and show the face up card, the spectator will react saying it's not their card when I use the standard "I didn't say it would be your card, just that one would turn over" since their card is underneath the face up card I use the twirl change to make it appear.


What a great idea!
I never bother looking at the bottom card. I simply put a downward crimp in a corner of the bottom and then, after the control, cut it back to the bottom.
But this is much better! I'll have to try it!
Thanks

Mark
mlippo
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Quote:
On Mar 12, 2018, warren wrote:

I have been chatting to a few well known magicians and it seem's that their are mixed feelings as to if multiple selection routines involving 6 or more selections are more entertaining to magicians than to the lay public.



I have at most nine selections. First four are revealed one at the time, then four at the same time (Gary Oulett's "Three Seconds Wonder") and finally the ninth card.
I think this helps keeping a good rhythm. I don't think I'm good enough to entertain them with nine single reveals...

Mark
helder
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I'm also creating my routine.

warren you can find the answers to your questions in Paul Cummins and Doc Eason Fusillade, especially the one about what to do if they forget the cards. It's probably the best booklet about this plot.

My favorite method for multiple selection is dupes if I perform the routine in parlour or stage shows. But for close up, Fireworks control or spread cull. Chamberlain idea with the reverse card is great. Thanks

The selection/ control fase must be quick, dupes provide that, also they can shuffle the deck. But in close up, they can see the dupes cards on the bottom of the deck while you reveal their selections. Fireworks does the job very well, it's quick and easy. I'm using an idea of Steve Valentine to let them shuffle the deck.

To make it interesting and strong for laymen, you have to think about the structure of the revelations. Each revelation shoud be stronger than the previous and add suspense, surprises, comedy to make them care.

And finally you have to be able to reveal any card they name because they can forget, and they will, but also they can name another card. Spread cull the card and produce it from box, pocket etc. play with it.
warren
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Quote:
On Mar 12, 2018, Chamberlain wrote:
I use the fireworks control however I secretly turn over the bottom card of the deck before I start, that way once I have shown all the selections I go to the first person and say "When I snap my fingers one card turns over" I spread through the deck and show the face up card, the spectator will react saying it's not their card when I use the standard "I didn't say it would be your card, just that one would turn over" since their card is underneath the face up card I use the twirl change to make it appear. I also mix in an overhand shuffle (shuffling the peeled cards back on top) when doing the fireworks control which helps disguise the method.

Also when I'm coming to the end of having the spectators look at their cards I'll say something like "Now if you forget your card just nod and say yes when I find them later, make me look good" Even if they forget their card I've found people will remember them when you find it later. I also reveal the card before asking them to name it to help prevent any awkward "I dunno" moments.

I've collected enough revelations to find up to 25 cards, however in most events it's normally around 6-10 selections you end up doing.


Thanks for your input Chamberlain some how I didn't see your post however they are great suggestions, it's funny you mention using the twirl chage for the first selection as that's how my routine starts....great minds obviously think alike Smile

As Harry mentioned he was kind enough to also answer some of my questions, the following are a couple of his replies

One of my favorite things in that area is Powerful Powers, which "does" four selections. That's as many as I "do." Taught it in JAW DROPPERS ONE. I'm in the throes of writing my last book now and the very first item is Powerful Powers Presentation - same effect, much stronger presentation. Best - Harry.

He also said " If I want to show "magical locations" of more than that I'd do something like my routine called Thirteen in JAW DROPPERS ONE " which is sadly out of print.

mlippo similar to yourself I have decided to limit the selections to a lower number which for me happens to be 6, my thinking is that this keeps the routine shorter which should make remembering the cards a little easier and also allows me to incorporate a joke which requires some spectators not to select a card.

Thanks again for everyone's input and please feel free to contribute anymore idea's or thoughts as to what can make or break a multiple selection routine Smile
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