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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » Multiplying Balls and joint pain (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

bkmeyer
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Friends,

I'm 55 and have been working hard on a routine with Fakini Golf Balls since the new year. Oddly, I've developed joint pain in my right index finger that is not horrendous, but it is noticeable and a hinderance. The only new thing I've added in my life is the golf ball manipulation so I'm suspicious. I'm wondering if any others have ever experienced similar joint pain when working with a multiplying ball routine. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer. I'm seriously considering starting over with my left hand to see if I'd get along better. Your thoughts?

Bruce
Bill Hegbli
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I am now 70, be 71 in April. I don't think the problem is the Balls fault, but it is how you are turning or twisting your fingers while moving the balls. You are most likely holding them to tight. Or, you may have early bone problems.

Yes, if you learn moves with the dominant hand, then the non-dominant hand will be easier to learn the moves.

Take off a couple days, and see if the pain goes away. Take some inflammation medication as well.

The index finger is the leas to of the fingers that move. While moving the ball out of the S. It should be your 2nd, 3rd, and pinky that takes most to joint pressure. I use to use the Fakini Golf Balls, and they do spread my fingers beyond where they should be spread.

Maybe you should get an X-Ray to check if you have not fractured you joint or finger.

The old joke, Doc, it hurts when I do this. Doc, then stop doing that. Smile
Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
WayneCapps
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I am 43 and went through the same thing working on my routine. My wife is a physical therapist and said it was hurting because I was not used to straining those muscles. She stretched and iced my hand and I cooled off for a few days (icing every night and taking Tylenol) and it was fine. It still hurts occasionally but with a little more stretching before and some ice and it is OK. The more I do it, the less it hurts.
Dick Oslund
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Hi Bruce!

I started with the "xxxing" balls in 1947, I was 16, and, still growing, so my digital musKles were quite flexible. I suggest that you give them a rest for a day or so, as Bill and Wayne have noted.

I believe that you have my book. On pages 372--376, are my notes on the "xxxing balls", and, on pages 302--305 are my notes on the ball routine that I've been doing for about 50+ years. You've probably read them, but, sometimes it's good to read them again. I gave the "real work" in those pages. Do you have my dvd?

O
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
bkmeyer
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Thank you Bill, Wayne, and Dick, for your answers. I will try your suggestions. I have rested my hand now since last Friday and I have noticed improvement, so I'm fairly certain it's the balls. My left hand isn't nearly as educated as my right, so I don't relish the idea of switching, but that might be my answer.

Dick, yes, I do have both your book and your DVD. I will look at your routine again. As I recall you don't use a sh*ll but do a type of perpetual ball routine.

When I was a teenager, I used smaller wooden balls and started with Mark Wilson's Course routine and had great reactions with it. Unfortunately, I outgrew those balls. I've owned Fakini for some time now and finally have a routine that I'm satisfied with but this problem is weird (I suppose I can expect more of these oddities as I age).

Thanks again for all your help, friends!

Bruce
bkmeyer
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Bill, did you find another ball that worked better in size or did you stick with Fakini?
Anatole
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Have you had the joint pain in your right index finger diagnosed?
Could it be trigger finger?
If so, it might be treatable.

Best to ask your doctor. A doctor might recommend a finger strengthener like this one
https://www.amazon.com/Finger-Strengthen......quipment

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
Bill Hegbli
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Quote:
On Mar 13, 2018, bkmeyer wrote:
Bill, did you find another ball that worked better in size or did you stick with Fakini?


After some 50 years, I found by another members recommendation the China Jieli Magic Balls. In my opinion they are very good, and comfortable as Billiard Ball manipulation can be with any balls. You can find them on eBay and come in red (a real red color) and white. I think I noticed they may come in other colors recently, but don't hold me to it. They do have a seam, if that bothers you, then maybe JL Mirage Billiard Balls or the new Bond Lee Billiard Balls, they all come in 1.7cm size, which work for me perfectly. The JIELI and Bonc Lee are lighter material, the JL is heavier. Another good thing with the JIELI, they only cost around $15 for 4 balls and 2 gimmicks. These are also all Silicon type material. I got the JIELI in 3 weeks from China.
Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
bkmeyer
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Anatole,

I haven't been to the doctor because it just began a couple weeks ago. The strange part is I have only minor discomfort during the day but it's at night my index finger locks up. I first thought I was dreaming but it's recurring. When I wake up in the middle of the night, my finger moves but it's like it loses smooth movement. When I try to straighten my finger out, it's like it's caught and can't move and then it jerks all the way open. It's really strange so I'm not sure I'm explaining it well. When I wake up and get it moving, it loosens up and is fine. My guess is it a tendon problem but I'm not a medical doctor either. Thanks for the suggestion and I will get it checked out if it persists. I thought I'd rest it and see it is resolves.

Bruce
bkmeyer
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Bill,

Thank you so much for the information on the alternatives. If I find that the Fakini's are messing with my joints or tendons, I might try a different size ball to see how it goes. I suspect my problem is when I get all the balls and gimmick in place it is a stretch for my hand. Thanks again.
Bill Hegbli
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Bkmeyer, that was exactly my problem as well. The Fakini Golf Balls are regulation golf ball size, my hand could never stretch that far, except back in my twenties and thirties.

You mention it locks up at night. That is not the balls issue it is a getting old problem. Sorry, can't remember the name for it. Last year, I experienced that as well, periodically. Mine has gone away on its own.

Wait until the nervous system starts shocking you, that is an experience, one was so strong it almost knocked me off my chair. Three shocks in row from left side through to the back.
Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Dick Oslund
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Even though I only do an occasional show, I'm still able to handle the balls! --although, as I noted in the book, I haven't done the multiplying in the show in YEARS. For me, the flourishes, the Perpetual Ball bit, and, the Williston penetration "do" it!!! Lemme know if you would like info on the "P & W".
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Anatole
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Some of the treatments my general practitioner recommended that I try for a while were:
1) icing the finger with ice in a plastic bag
2) at night, taking a popsicle stick and using Band-Aids as a kind of splint so that while I was asleep, I would not bend the finger, and
3) squeezing exercises with a soft rubber ball
4) physical therapy--which included cortisone shots

Here's some info on cortisone shots from:
https://www.miamihandcenter.com/hand/trigger-finger
-----quote-----
Cortisone Injection

An injection of cortisone into the area of inflamed tendon is the first step in the treatment of trigger finger. Cortisone injections and rest of the affected digit have a 50/50 chance of successfully treating trigger finger when the condition has only been present for less than 2-3 months and the locking is mild.
-----unquote-----

The physical therapy and cortisone shots helped for a while--and finger stretching exercises. But the doctors said too many cortisone shots can be risky.

Eventually, though, I had trigger finger release surgery when the home and therapy treatments became less effective. It was a tough decision since I do a lot of card and ball manipulation, but it got to the point that the trigger finger was very painful.

Here's what the Mayo Clinic says about cortisone shots :
-----quote-----
There's concern that repeated cortisone shots might cause the cartilage within a joint to deteriorate. So doctors typically limit the number of cortisone shots into a joint.

In general, you shouldn't get cortisone injections more often than every six weeks and usually not more than three or four times a year.
-----unquote-----
https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedu......20384794

I hope all the info from everyone above helps.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
Dick Oslund
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Bruce...I realize that you probably have "your heart" set on doing the "xxxing balls", but, one must realize and accept the fact that one's hands may be just not the right size, or one's fingers may not be flexible enough.

Jay Marshall and I discussed, at great length, the "process" of adding a "new trick" to one's repertoire. After several hours, we agreed that there are three steps necessary, to add a new trick:

1. Learn how it is DONE.

2. Learn how to DO it.

3. Learn how to do it, so that it ENTERTAINS people! (You probably read all that, in my book, but there may be some guys reading this, who have never heard that "formula" expressed, like that.)

For them, I'll provide a bit of history, also:

I bought a set of Ireland mulyiplying golf balls in 1947. I already knew how they were done. In a few weeks of daily practice, I learned how to do them, exceptionally well.

I THOUGHT that my routine, (from John Booth's "Marvels of Mystery", was very practical, and, as noted, I could do it quite well. (At 16, I was trying very hard to be "swayve & deboner". I was a bit too young and inexperienced to realize that I WASN'T suave and debonair! Looking back about 68 years, I remember seeing Percy Abbott, at my first convention (IBM) performing a routine that he called "Perpetual Balls". I was fascinated! "How much Mr Abbott?" I asked. "One dollar!" he said. I nearly tore my underwear, getting out my wallet! He handed me 3 sheets of mimeographed instructions, with hand drawn pictures. "Hey! clever!" I exclaimed! (I had learned how it was done, in 3 minutes! Back home, it took me a week to learn how to do it. The Perpetual Balls were soon blended into the "xxxing balls" routine. The basic concept was so naturally funny that, learning how to do it so that it ENTERTAINED, almost happened automatically!

I was in the Navy a year later, and attended an MAES convention. Wilfred Syltten, a dealer, showed me a visible penetration of a silk with a golf ball. ("WOW", said I! "How much?" "One dollar" he replied. I nearly tore my underwear again! He spent five minutes showing me, how (after, I had" crossed his palm with the $!) It was immediately added to the "xxxing hall routine. I was still doing John Booth's routine, that I had learned in '47, and still trying to be swayve & deboner. Essentially, my presentation was, "Look how clever I am!" After a few months with the Perpetual Balls, and, the Bill Williston ball penetration in the "middle" I finally realized that the "Perpetual" and the Williston, were playing MUCH STRONGER than the "xxxing ball". YUP! THE "XXXING BALLS" WERE "RED LIGHTED" (a circus term, meaning: "Left behind"!!!) I can still DO them, for my own amusement, but, I haven't done them in the act, since that day, when I realized that the Perpetual, and the penetration were INHERENTLY ENTERTAINING! All that I had need to do, was to work on the TIMING, of the EFFECTS. (EFFECTS ARE WHAT THE AUDIENCE PERCEIVES.)
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
bkmeyer
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All of you have been so helpful (I even have a name for this condition). Thanks for the information and for the encouragements. My case seems to be mild, so I think for now I will take a break from the balls for awhile, at least from holding all four.

Dick, thanks again for the performance reminders. I'm on spring break this week, so I'm going the revisit your book and the perpetual routine. I suspect I can make some simple alterations and continue with the segments of the routine that I like while using the perpetual segment you have used so successfully.

Thanks again, Bill, Anatole, and Dick, for all your contributions in time and wisdom.
Alan Munro
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One possible cause, that few discuss, is Vitamin C supplements - specifically ascorbic acid. It causes crystals to form in the joints and may take a year or longer to occur. I had to switch to Ester-C, to reverse the effects.
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