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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Did you hear the latest? » » Marc Spellman on Britain's Got Talent (7 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

SleepyMagic
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Https://youtu.be/Q3jege0p0dQ

My favourite comment from one of the judges "I don't care how you did it"

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Mindpro
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On one hand a great demonstration of the power of scripting and a solid story. On the other hand, another "mentalist" with a great chance to position mentalism to the public and the first words of the routine are "Are you a magician? I am indeed." Such a shame.

As I have long-said most so-called mentalists here are simply magicians - I guess now they are just finally starting to admit it.

Well done.
SleepyMagic
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I get where you are coming from..but imo the public consider mentalists and magicians to be more or less the same thing.

Eg. If you asked people in the UK what Derren Brown is... majority of them will say magician even though his shows are the most psychological mentalisty thing I've seen any mentalist do.
I know people call him a magician because ive asked people .

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Dannydoyle
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The only way that changes is to actively do so.
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Maddies Ghost
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Dire examples of forcing-exception of rubik's cube- and using his families tradegy to gain sympathy to progress in the show. Is this th ebest UK magicians can offer?
Maddies Ghost
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Further to add with these pre recorded reveals ,what is the supposed method of how magician obtains the info?It isn't mind reading as info is predetermined.
IAIN
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You've got to understand the UK mindset, culture and terminology to get why the term 'mentalist' is not used with these kinds of things...
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Tom Cutts
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On Apr 16, 2018, IAIN wrote:
You've got to understand the UK mindset, culture and terminology to get why the term 'mentalist' is not used with these kinds of things...

Shhhh... Let the culturally ignorant pontificate. Smile
Dannydoyle
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Isn't it an individual thing? I mean I have never heard anyone after Banachek does a show call him a magician. Same with Ross Johnson.

Others do. I would imagine it is a local phenomenon according to their booking needs.

Personally if I would make more money doing mentalism and being called a magician I would be perfectly happy with that occurrence.

Be in control of the perception is the key.
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Samuel Catoe
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I have Danny. I was at one of his shows some years ago and the people who attended were actually talking about how good a magician he was.

To the public, magic and performance mentalism are very visually similar and thus they get lumped into the same category and become magicians. At least that is what I have seen. However, to performers they are very different. Something else to consider, a reader who uses magical methods to our sect is a mentalist, but to the public is a Palm Reader or Tarot Reader, maybe even a Psychic, but they are most certainly not a magician. What is the difference? Entertainment. One is seen as entertainment, but a Reader is not perceived as entertainment. They are perceived as guides or counselors and similar to life coaches. They are not viewed as entertainers. That is the difference. Hypnotists are not seen as magicians either, though I have seen several who include a Q & A act complete with blindfold. We might call that person a magician but the public does not.

Perception. Magical entertainers will be seen as magicians by the public. Unless you actually say that you are not a magician, you will be put into that category almost automatically. As Danny said, you have to control the perception.
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Mindpro
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I agree and I have too heard of Banchek referred to as a magician, but not because of his performance. I've told the story before that I was in an audience at a college booking event, when he took the stage and used Grant's disclaimer "I use my five senses to create the illusion of a 6th sense..." A student and the advisor sitting in front of us said, "aw he's using illusion to do all of this, so he's really just a magician" and the two of them and the other three they were with got up and left disappointed.

I've seen the same with disclaimers or setups to the effect of "I use body language, the 5 senses, and stagecraft to create the illusion of mind reading." And nearly the exact same was said and disappointment instantly came over them.

Also while I know what the definition and slang of the term mentalist is in the UK, it could easily be changed by someone prominent, just as rappers have changed definitions of words or phrases to a younger generation, which can then become a generally accepted additional definition as well.

I have booked mentalists and hypnotists before in the UK and used the term without problem.
Mindpro
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On Apr 24, 2018, Samuel Catoe wrote:
As Danny said, you have to control the perception.


Exactly, it's called creating positioning.
Banachek
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On Apr 24, 2018, Mindpro wrote:
used Grant's disclaimer "I use my five senses to create the illusion of a 6th sense..." A student and the advisor sitting in front of us said, "aw he's using illusion to do all of this, so he's really just a magician" and the two of them and the other three they were with got up and left disappointed.



first not Grant's disclaimer. It was Ned Rutlidge and Ned had used it for a one off lecture. I asked Ned if I could use it and run with it, and I did. Always giving him full credit.

2nd I am pretty darn sure they would not leave for that reason, that sound so stupid and petty. And pretty certain an Adviser would not, as they would be happy I am telling the truth and not lying to their students. Kind of really dumb to leave a show before it begins, but wait, you said they did see some of it.. hmmm story seems fishy.. sorry.

Why would anyone be disappointed if they still have no idea how it was done and it was amazing. I would be even more amazing. Basically you are saying people are disappointed with Derren Brown too then. I don't see it. Sorry.
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Mindpro
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Sorry, you are correct it was Ned, my mistake. Also sorry you seem to think the story seems fishy, but it happened just as described. We actually discussed this several years ago (you, Heidi, David Alexander and myself in Chicago) where you seemed to shrug it off. It made me rethink my own positioning at the time as well. Later, I started getting the same thoughts and perspectives from inquiring prospective customers at my agencies from those seeking psychic or mentalism entertainers, as it was there I really started better understanding how many people see and experience mentalism.
The Hermit
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On Apr 16, 2018, Maddies Ghost wrote:
Dire examples of forcing-exception of rubik's cube- and using his families tradegy to gain sympathy to progress in the show. Is this th ebest UK magicians can offer?


Sob stories are the bread and butter of these shows. It's how you create drama where the format has none. Even the stupid cooking competition shows have people telling how they had to overcome some impediment to become a cook FFS. Producers know it works and exploit any personal tragedy to capture audience mindshare. We used to judge just on accomplishment, but now it's about how you overcame your drug habit, abused childhood, loss of parent or bullying in the 3rd grade. We seem to have to make people sad sacks first and then we can validate any accomplishment through that lens. It's becoming boring at this point. Every performer has to have some defect in order to be relevant. The hero's journey for everyone. It would be refreshing to see someone that wants to be a singer come on and say how great their home life was and they have just been really lucky throughout their life and born with talent. I guess if that person won it wouldn't have the same appeal.

Kudo's to Spelman for knowing how to wring great emotion out of some basic effects. It proves how little the effect matters to the context of the presentation. Feeling trumps words every time.
CurtWaltermire
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The show pressures you for a sob story because it sells. I did a blindfolded car drive for the 2014 season of AGT (same people run it anyway) and they interviewed me for an hour, pumping me with questions about some family misfortunes and what-not. I didn't have one to tell and I definitely wasn't going to make one up just for the sake of "likability."

I did the drive (with the judges in the car), was voted through, and was told by my producer and crew it was sensational. They even did an added extra comedy bit with me driving Howie Mandel's limousine, with Howie himself hanging out of the back window screaming for help.

The spot never aired.

I suppose my lack of personal tragedy may have had something to do with it. But Smoothini made it though.
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dreamadream99
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Quote:
On Apr 24, 2018, Samuel Catoe wrote:
I have Danny.

OMG, he’s kidnapped Danny!
rjs
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The show is quite stupid. The panel are a dopey bunch. Walliams is an over-rated actor. He ruined the Agatha Christie remake of Tommy and Tuppence.
Aleisha is common as muck when she emits a laugh.
What else can be said?
Ant & Dec (the surviving non-alcolholic) is a jumped up overpaid idiot whose demise is due.
It's ITV porn for the scummy masses.
Has a certain amount of cruel comical value, but needs to be cancelled asap.
rjs
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Change of heart: the BGT/LGBT comic was very funny though!
debjit
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It was a great act though. I love Marc Spellman's DVDs and his thoughts on mentalism are very solid.
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